How about Thrace?

TyrannusRex

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I've been trying to brainstorm ideas for Thrace.
Admittedly, the idea only came to mind because I really want to use peltasts in Civ.
Let's make a civ, shall we?
 
No language, few leaders, and virtually everything we know about them comes from the very biased accounts of the Greeks. Granted, the same is true of Scythia, but then I'm not thrilled with Scythia, either. Plus Saka is still better attested than Thracian. A spear-thrower wouldn't be a bad UU for the Maya or Inca; preferably the Maya as I'd lean towards a Slinger-replacing Bolas Thrower for the Inca.
 
Javelineer should indeed be added, but that's largely due to how barren the current unit pool is. Thrace is better off as a minor civ/city state anyway. Just add Seuthopolis as a City State, maybe give them the Peltast as a UU that you can build if Suzerain (+ some other bonus because that unit's usefullness will have expired beyond the Renaissance)
 
In the next expansion they really need to turn the scout into a light infantry line.

Scout->Peltast->Skirmisher->Ranger->Commando->Spec Ops.
 
Javelineer should indeed be added, but that's largely due to how barren the current unit pool is. Thrace is better off as a minor civ/city state anyway. Just add Seuthopolis as a City State, maybe give them the Peltast as a UU that you can build if Suzerain (+ some other bonus because that unit's usefullness will have expired beyond the Renaissance)

I quite like that idea of UUs that can only be used if you are suzerain. Balearic Island slingers would fit except I don't think there was anything approaching a city-state there in the Ancient/Classical eras. I'd love to see them appear in a game except they probably weren't important enough to qualify as a UU for Carthage. Mao-Mahon does date back to Carthaginian times.
 
There are certainly cities for mercenaries:

Zurich
Dublin(Gallowglass or even the various Irish Brigades in the 19th century)
Kassel
Zaphorozia (Though Russia already has cossacks as a UU)
 
I quite like that idea of UUs that can only be used if you are suzerain. Balearic Island slingers would fit except I don't think there was anything approaching a city-state there in the Ancient/Classical eras. I'd love to see them appear in a game except they probably weren't important enough to qualify as a UU for Carthage. Mao-Mahon does date back to Carthaginian times.
There's Carthaginian Mago, as you suggest, or you could just call it "Mallorca."

One of the Pre-Roman Hispanic cities, like Tartessos (Tartessian) or Pallantia (Celtiberian), would be another good choice for a mercenary-providing city-state, given that the Carthaginian army was filled heavily with Celtiberian and Iberian mercenaries. Gauls, too, but I'd like to see a proper Gaulish civ...
 
There are certainly cities for mercenaries:

Zurich
Dublin(Gallowglass or even the various Irish Brigades in the 19th century)
Kassel
Zaphorozia (Though Russia already has cossacks as a UU)
Valletta could have worked easily maybe by purchasing knight units with faith.
Nassau or Port Royal could work for naval raider mercenaries, or even the Vatican City with the Swiss Guard.
 
I should have looked in on this Thread earlier - I did part of my Master's Thesis on Thracian units in Alexander the Great's army!

First, brief dissertation on What Is Known about Thracian military units:
They were famous for their 'light' infantry, originally called Peltasts (Pelta = Target, because it was a small round or crescent-shaped shield rather than a body-covering Hoplon). They were much less armored but much faster and more maneuverable over rough ground than Hoplites, but at the same time, armed with both throwing and thrusting spears, they could both skirmish and hold their own against enemy 'heavy' troops and cavalry. Thracians were a great source for mercenary troops, as well as Greek troops whose equipment was patterned after the Thracian Pelta/javelin combination. The Agrianes were an elite javelin-armed unit of Thracians that were part of Alexander's army from the time he became king until he died. Thracian nobles were cavalry, very few armored but all very good wth a thrown javelin from horseback. They were also, at least compared to Greeks, considered to be very good horsemen. They were also headhunters, as one Thracian cavalry unit tore up a Persian light cavalry unit and brought its leader's head back to Alexander as a trophy - Alexander was not particularly pleased, since he would have preferred the man alive to be questioned about what the Persians were up to at the time!
Later, the Peltasts became somewhat 'heavier' - the shield became a Theuros ('Door'), an oval shield almost as big as a Hoplon, and Thracian infantry fought in closer formations with a long thrusting spear and a sword as a side-arm. These were the 6000 or so Thracians who fought off 8000+ Bactrian cavalry on Alexander's right flank at Gaugamela, so by this time Thracian could mean either Peltast-javelinmen like Agrianes or regular Spearmen.

A Thracian Civilization is a little 'iffy'. Notoriously, the Thracians were never a single united people, but a collection of tribes who spent more time fighting each other than anyone else, and provided almost as many mercenary troops for other people (like Greek., Macedonian, Successor States and even as auxiliaries to Rome) as they did for themselves. The Greeks liked to say that if they ever united, the Thracians could rule the world, but they never did. A City State seems like a better 'fit' for Civ VI, and a City State that can provide 'mercenary' Peltasts to their Suzerain would fit their historical role.
A Thracian Peltast could be a Recon unit that has the factors of a Slinger (ranged factor, 1 tile range) AND gets a Spearman bonus against mounted troops. (The Agrianes, supposedly strictly light javelin men, butchered a bunch of Persian chariots at Gaugamela on flat, open ground)

A last note on Thracians, for a little Identification Confusion: Thracians wore tartan cloaks and used bagpipes (well, closer to a Small Pipe, but same principle): a Thracian Peltast unit could be a colorful little outfit!

Now about Mercenaries in general and Slingers in particular:
Slingers come in two types: professional slingers firing specially-made cast lead streamlined 'shot', and Everybody Else who herds sheep or cattle on foot, shooting rocks. The 'sources' for the lead-pellet slinger-mercenaries were actually two: Rhodes and the Baleric Islands, so Rhodes or Mallorca could either be a City State that gives you mercenary Slingers (factors and range like Archers, but +5 against Non-Gunpowder Ranged - the lead pellets flew so fast they could not be seen in flight, so you couldn't dodge them - they were deadly against unarmored archers or slingers).

Other potential Mercenary City States:
Okilis: gives you Celtiberian Infantry (Classical Era) (Swordsmen with a 1-Tile Ranged attack before melee - the Romans adopted both the long 'Spanish' sword and the heavy iron throwing Pilum from them)
Cirta: gives you Numidian Horseman (Classical Era) (Horse Archer who throws javelins, can move after attacking)
Berne: gives you Swiss Pikemen (Renaissance Era) (Pikeman with +1 movement, automatic Thrust Promotion)
Darmstadt: gives you Hessian Fusilier (Industrial Era) (factors as for Redcoat, if Garrison, adds +1 Production to a city)

In the next expansion they really need to turn the scout into a light infantry line.

Scout->Peltast->Skirmisher->Ranger->Commando->Spec Ops.

If I may suggest, a more complete 'Scout' line would be:
Scout (Ancient Era) - Peltast (Classical Era) - Forester (Medieval Era) - Dragoon (Renaissance Era) - Ranger (Industrial Era) - Armored Car (Modern Era) - Special Forces (Atomic Era)
- Or any part of that line that adds Something in the gaping hole between Scout and Ranger now!
 
Berne can also give you chocolate bars as a luxury if you don't get the Swiss Pike.

Well, Amenity/Luxuries from City States is an entirely other topic, but, since you mentioned it, what I would really like to see is some more of the Civic/Social Policy/Political implications of some of the Amenities.
In this specific instance, the Chocolate/Cocoa drinking establishment, along with the Coffee House, not only added Amenity value to many European states far above the simple products themselves, but also had Economic implications (Lloyd's Insurance started in a Coffee House), Cultural implications (several groups meeting in private homes over coffee/chocolate drinks or in Public Houses included the 'movers and shakers' of the Scottish Enlightenment and English Royal Society, not to mention the writers like Samuel Johnston and his crowd who were regular denizens of the Coffee Houses) and Political/Civic implications ("Drinking Coffee and Talking Revolution" as the phrase went)

On a broader note, the more different influences and things you can get from City States, the more reasons there are for the ^%@#$ AI to not try to conquer them all before the end of the Medieval Era!
 
If I may suggest, a more complete 'Scout' line would be:
Scout (Ancient Era) - Peltast (Classical Era) - Forester (Medieval Era) - Dragoon (Renaissance Era) - Ranger (Industrial Era) - Armored Car (Modern Era) - Special Forces (Atomic Era)
- Or any part of that line that adds Something in the gaping hole between Scout and Ranger now!
1. Why Forrester is a better name than Skirmisher? Ainht they a different terms for Sheriffs?
2. Dragoons are shifty units. began as mounted musketeer with limited swordfighting capability ( some countries even field large numbers of them), then cheap cavalry with performance just below 'light cavalry' (bad mounts = bad speeds and poor stamina), later a title of real cavalry (either light or heavy) and eventually became REAL cavalry. they might appaer in the Renaissance as separate units that can later upgraded into Cavalry (should be of a converged class of Light and Heavy cav actually)
3. Did 'Adventurers' or 'Irregulars' a proper name of a recon unit between Skirmisher/Forrester and Ranger (in Renaissance/Earlymodern era)? Anyone in 15th-18th Century ever recruit bandits to be light units and set loose against enemy either behind enemy lines or along the road where enemy marching column is passing? (either light cavalry or light infantry) in exchange of total absolutions for their previous crimes against hiring faction/country/empire/nation?
 
1. Why Forrester is a better name than Skirmisher? Ainht they a different terms for Sheriffs?

No. 'Sheriff' originally was a contraction of 'Shire Reeve', the Royal administrator of a Shire, or territory. Since one of the administrative duties was to keep the peace in the shire, it came to have a policing or quasi-military function, but there's little evidence of that at first. By the 100 Year's War in the late Medieval period, the Sheriffs were used as commanders of the Yeoman levy from the shires, which comprised the bulk of the English (long)bowmen. That made them part of the Longbow combat system, but to make them a separate military unit or actor would make no more sense than giving a Tax Collector a military role.
Forester is a better term for 'light' scouts because it was the foresters or game-keepers that provided the most proficient sneaky troops in Europe. Every aristocrat of any standing kept large Hunting Preserves in his territory and had them patroled by Foresters or Game Keepers to keep the riffraff from poaching 'his' huntable animals. That provided a fairly large pool of men skilled at skirmishing on foot or mounted, spotting enemies in large or small groups, and fighting them - all the qualities desired in Scouts.

2. Dragoons are shifty units. began as mounted musketeer with limited swordfighting capability ( some countries even field large numbers of them), then cheap cavalry with performance just below 'light cavalry' (bad mounts = bad speeds and poor stamina), later a title of real cavalry (either light or heavy) and eventually became REAL cavalry. they might appaer in the Renaissance as separate units that can later upgraded into Cavalry (should be of a converged class of Light and Heavy cav actually)

Don't confuse 'Mousketieres' with Dragoons or Dragonards. The French 'Musketiers' were mounted aquebusier/swordsmen and classed as Heavy Cavalry (part of the Garde du Corps or French Royal Household Cavalry). The first, or 'Gray Musketiers' (called that from the color of their horses) were organized in 1622. In 1618, or at about the same time, the first dragoons appear in the Polish forces, and they were infantry mounted on horseback for movement but fighting on foot with muskets and pikes or spears (all muskets by about 1650)
Probably from observing the Poles (and Ukrainians, who had been using mounted infantry as raiders for some time already) Count von Mansfeld organized the first 'regular' Regiment of Dragoons in the Imperial (Austrian) Army by 1624.

3. Did 'Adventurers' or 'Irregulars' a proper name of a recon unit between Skirmisher/Forrester and Ranger (in Renaissance/Earlymodern era)? Anyone in 15th-18th Century ever recruit bandits to be light units and set loose against enemy either behind enemy lines or along the road where enemy marching column is passing? (either light cavalry or light infantry) in exchange of total absolutions for their previous crimes against hiring faction/country/empire/nation?

The problem is that Irregulars, Adventurers, Bandits describe the economic and/or political situation of these groups, but not their military capabilities, if any. Everybody hired some of these at one time or the other, but only a fool would trust them. As one military writer of the time remarked, as scouts they invariably could tell you if the enemy out numbered you, because as soon as they learned that fact they would all disappear so as not to be caught in a losing battle!
Scouting was almost always done by some kind of 'light' cavalry (or light infantry in rough country). The problem with the Medieval and early Renaissance periods is that very few armies bothered to raise, organize, and pay such troops. If they were going to pay someone, it would be someone armed to fight and win a Battle or Siege, not skulk around the countryside 'just' to tell you where the enemy was. This was a very persistent problem, because as late as the 18th century (early Industrial Era) good generals (like Friedrich the Great or Maurice de Saxe) were interrogating and bribing local farmers and merchants to find out if any enemy troops were around because they couldn't be sure their own light cavalry (by then Hussars or Dragoons) would bother scouting if there was loot to be gathered instead.
 
^ And are rangers located right where it currently is? in the Industrial Era? Despite civilopedia sugggested that their origins took place in North American Colonies in the late half of 17th Century particularly when Natives employed irregular / skirmisher tactics. and did Jager/Chasseur located about the same?

Did Balkan Hadjuks, Austrian Pandours and Greek Klepts a good example of 'Earlymodern' recon class before Rangers?

If there should be a recon unit between Skirmisher/Forrester and Ranger then what is a recommended name if Dragoons will be of its own class which can later upgraded to converged class Cavalry? And i mentioned the term 'musketeers on horseback' to refer to their weapons and not French Elite Cadre of 17th Century.
Name of Earlymodern Light Infantry please, Did 'Huntsman' a better name? (and them with early rifles) or Rangers should be in Renaissance/Earlymodern while Sharpshooters (Famous in American Civil War particuarly with them amongs the first to use repeating rifles) replaced Rangers in Industrial Era??
 
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