steve dave
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2002
- Messages
- 80
I can't ever get a foothold on other continents in the games because coruption just kills any of my cities. Is there anyway around this or just keep my cities near the palace and forbiddin palace?
How can you get decent cities on other continents?
- Thread starter steve dave
- Start date
the_travis_s
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2002
- Messages
- 21
One thing you can do is wait untill you have a continent pretty well settled until you build your forbidden palace. After that, build it smack in the middle, or in the middle of you best producing cities. This will mean for a little while you will probably have very little corruption there.
After you start to settle other continents, the very first thing you should build in each city to fight corruption is a courthouse. It won't help greatly, but it certainly doesn't hurt! After a while, you will want to build a new palace over there. Simply choose the city/area with the most corruption, then build the palace there. This way you will have two continents with the corruption fighting power of a palace, but it will take some time to get it built!
After you start to settle other continents, the very first thing you should build in each city to fight corruption is a courthouse. It won't help greatly, but it certainly doesn't hurt! After a while, you will want to build a new palace over there. Simply choose the city/area with the most corruption, then build the palace there. This way you will have two continents with the corruption fighting power of a palace, but it will take some time to get it built!
Zachriel
Kaiser
In your beachhead city, rush the temple, then the airport, then the cathedral. After pushing forward, select a site for the Forbidden Palace. Rush the temple and cathedral first. Then use a Great Leader to rush the Forbidden Palace.
Here is an example:
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/BeachHead.htm
Here is an example:
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/BeachHead.htm
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
Yes, wait with the FP until you really need it.
The problem with the FP is you can't sell it or relocate it once it is built - which is stupid.
BTW, I made all temples and cathedrals corruption reducers, but it doesn't help much in distant cities/towns.
The problem with the FP is you can't sell it or relocate it once it is built - which is stupid.
BTW, I made all temples and cathedrals corruption reducers, but it doesn't help much in distant cities/towns.
The FP is not moveable, Yes. But the Palace are.
So if you think yoou won't be building the FP anytime soon. Build it in a City in a Good area of your continent (don't waste the FP, build it so you get a new core area). Then when you have invaded a new continent, like Zachriels example, move the Palace instead.
This way you have been using the FP for good causes for centuries. And if you never got a leader, you can feel good about not wasting the opportunity.
Zachriel
Kaiser
I agree that not being able to relocate the FP is not the best choice. You should be able to move it as your empire grows. Then you would build one early, then still have it for that other continent.
chiefpaco
Emperor
Grey Fox, Zachriel, thanks for the great tip! I always forget that the palace is moveable. Building the FP close & rushing a new Palace can be a very useful trick. I can see how it could be useful while waiting & waiting for the leader to arrive.
It was strange for me at first to consider this "inverse" corruption solution. However, it makes just as much sense (as long as the 2nd capital is still well connected & secure)! Would've helped me in GOTM6. I like building the Heroic Epic sometimes, so it was leader #2 in this game.
It was strange for me at first to consider this "inverse" corruption solution. However, it makes just as much sense (as long as the 2nd capital is still well connected & secure)! Would've helped me in GOTM6. I like building the Heroic Epic sometimes, so it was leader #2 in this game.
i built city on other continent only for ressource purposis, but if i needed some production, i pay for temple,harbor ( to be conected), marketplace ( luxuries boost), courthouse, and when i reach size 6 i manage to have a we love the president day, unsted of having 1 shield i can get near 7-8 shield.
Zachriel
Kaiser
There is historical precedence for moving the capital. For instance, the nascent American civilization moved their capital from Philadelphia to the more centrally located Washington, which was established just for that purpose. (A committee decided the location of the new capital based on its centrality, so they built it on a swamp; and it isn't central anymore, but hey, that's what committees do.)
Another example is when Constantine moved his well-established capital from Rome to Constantinople. This may have been a strategic mistake and the matter is still being debated.
Generally speaking I dont even try to get productive cities on other continents. I rush build a temple so the cultural infulence expands in 5 turns so you have control over more land area but after that I dont worry about building any thing else. Any further city improvements are just a drain on the treasuary. The ony exception to this is at least one harbor and/or airport to get units and supplies to the other land mass. The only thing cities on other continents are good for is controlling luxeries, resources, and land. Its a simple concept, if you have control the enemy doesnt.
Zachriel
Kaiser
That can also be a good strategy.
When the Europeans colonized Asia and Africa, it wasn't for their industrial production, but for their resources. As always, it depends on the position.
planetfall
Emperor
Zouave--also edit police stations so reduce corruption and reduce cost to same as barracks. The combo of Police-temple-cathedral-courthouse should reduce corruption enough. By making police cheap, you can start them earlier and change a 1 shield city to 3-4 shield city, and then it is just improve like crazy.
Other option is to bring along units to sacrifice for shields and courthouse building. Artillery can work well for this.
Other option is to bring along units to sacrifice for shields and courthouse building. Artillery can work well for this.
friedmad
Civaholic
modding temples and cathedrals to be corruption-reducers doesnt make much sense, since historically that's where most of a civ's corruption originates - from the religious institutions...lol
Sentinali
Chieftain
My personal view on far flung cities is that they MUST give my empire as a whole some kind of advantage or I don't need them. These include:
1.) Getting Resource Access
2.) Having an airbase/ harbour for an invasion force
Though this strat works well to win the game it does so with only a moderate score. I find scoring a little bit problematic as it is base on territory/pop. This puts it in direct conflict in later game with the corrupt city issues.
1.) Getting Resource Access
2.) Having an airbase/ harbour for an invasion force
Though this strat works well to win the game it does so with only a moderate score. I find scoring a little bit problematic as it is base on territory/pop. This puts it in direct conflict in later game with the corrupt city issues.
friedmad
Civaholic
fortunately food production is not affected by corruption...so I just build for population on other continents, and as forward bases for extending supply lines.
planetfall
Emperor
"most corruption comes from temples and cathedrals"
Now that would be hard to prove. Almost all religions have a sense of ethics. Ethics espoused by religious do not promote corruption. The source of most corruption will vary by government style, but the maxim still holds "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". In modern American society the most corruption seems to come from 1) the probably amoral and definitely areligous government with its political parties jockeying for power, 2) the "non-profit" entities working for more power and 3) the "only gold matters" activity evaluation of modern business {"Gold only" measuring standard is ethics but not morality.}.
If we just look at history, we can look at Roman senate after 300 years, the kremlin after 50 years, and any house of laws {Parliment/congress} after 100 years, it should be extremely simple to find examples of rampant corruption. Seems like we have a recent business example in Encron.
I have mixed feelings about using courthouses to reduce corruption. They will reduce corruption of the blatant "stick them up and give me the money" type, but only seem to encourage the "we make the laws to get us more of your money" corruption seen in USA laws and govt subsidies of non-profits and businesses.
Finally remember the purpose of cities on other continents is not really shield production but rather resource gathering and influence projection so you are not automatically an invasion target.
Now that would be hard to prove. Almost all religions have a sense of ethics. Ethics espoused by religious do not promote corruption. The source of most corruption will vary by government style, but the maxim still holds "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". In modern American society the most corruption seems to come from 1) the probably amoral and definitely areligous government with its political parties jockeying for power, 2) the "non-profit" entities working for more power and 3) the "only gold matters" activity evaluation of modern business {"Gold only" measuring standard is ethics but not morality.}.
If we just look at history, we can look at Roman senate after 300 years, the kremlin after 50 years, and any house of laws {Parliment/congress} after 100 years, it should be extremely simple to find examples of rampant corruption. Seems like we have a recent business example in Encron.
I have mixed feelings about using courthouses to reduce corruption. They will reduce corruption of the blatant "stick them up and give me the money" type, but only seem to encourage the "we make the laws to get us more of your money" corruption seen in USA laws and govt subsidies of non-profits and businesses.
Finally remember the purpose of cities on other continents is not really shield production but rather resource gathering and influence projection so you are not automatically an invasion target.
friedmad
Civaholic
i agreewith you whole-heartedly. in fact, one of the biggest sources of corruption in modern society is, ironcally enough, the judicial and court system....
however, to support my previous point, I refer you to the Catholic Church - a HUGE source of corruption since its inception 1700 years ago
however, to support my previous point, I refer you to the Catholic Church - a HUGE source of corruption since its inception 1700 years ago
planetfall
Emperor
Ok, I forgot about the judical system corruption. And yet, cathedrals do have a positive effect on reducing corruption, see the USSR experiment on live without moral focus points.
But let's say your premise is partically correct, there is some corruption in cathedrals, Roman, Greek Orthrodox, or whatever, what type of corruption is that? Isn't it more a corruption of happiness than a corruption of production or gold? Except in countries where cathedrals are converted from religious institutions into political institutions supported by taxes instead of by donations, I have not seen cathedrals siphoning off 5-20% of local work effect {production/shields}, or of gross income {gold}, or of food, or of science activity {beakers}.
But you do raise an interesting idea, happiness corruption. Huh, the father a cathedral is from the palace, the less happiness it produces. Sounds like a legitimate RFE for firaxis. Now extend that idea to the sistine chapel. Rather than doubling happiness in all cities on continent, change to a ranged effect, 3x in city of sistine, but scale down to 1 extra in remote cities, based on distance from sistine chapel.
Man if firaxis impliments just a few of the ideas we post on these forums, we offer perpetual employment for their programmers.
Happiness corruption-- What do others think, would this enhance or detract from game?
But let's say your premise is partically correct, there is some corruption in cathedrals, Roman, Greek Orthrodox, or whatever, what type of corruption is that? Isn't it more a corruption of happiness than a corruption of production or gold? Except in countries where cathedrals are converted from religious institutions into political institutions supported by taxes instead of by donations, I have not seen cathedrals siphoning off 5-20% of local work effect {production/shields}, or of gross income {gold}, or of food, or of science activity {beakers}.
But you do raise an interesting idea, happiness corruption. Huh, the father a cathedral is from the palace, the less happiness it produces. Sounds like a legitimate RFE for firaxis. Now extend that idea to the sistine chapel. Rather than doubling happiness in all cities on continent, change to a ranged effect, 3x in city of sistine, but scale down to 1 extra in remote cities, based on distance from sistine chapel.
Man if firaxis impliments just a few of the ideas we post on these forums, we offer perpetual employment for their programmers.
Happiness corruption-- What do others think, would this enhance or detract from game?
friedmad
Civaholic
I think that's why Firaxis encourages forums on their games...lol
as for the religious institution corruption thing, i could go on and on, but will only make one comment - 10% tithe...that is a definite siphoning off of commercial production and should be considered a form of corruption
as for the religious institution corruption thing, i could go on and on, but will only make one comment - 10% tithe...that is a definite siphoning off of commercial production and should be considered a form of corruption
planetfall
Emperor
I too could go on and on, but don't want to on this forum. I don't have data on RC income. I do know for American Protestism the average is 4% with average attendance now about 25%, that works out to 1% for the nation. Not a huge number. Some like Southern Baptists may have higher numbers. Mormons are the only group I know of that enforce tithing.
Even if the nation's number were doubled to 2% that pales in comparison to the more than 50% that we pay in taxes. {34% fed, 5% state, x% real estate {1%?}, y% sales tax {7%?}, z% taxes on businesses passed on to consumer {15%?}. Last time I checked those funds are not restricted to
-- military units
-- infrastructure improvements
-- wonders/great wonders
{do civs even do this today? }
Wonder how much waste there is in our form of government?
+ income taxes
+ business taxes
+ sales taxes
+ usage and ownership taxes
= total government income.
- military
- science
- wonders and great wonders
- city/state/fed improvements {Interstate, internet}
= total useful projects
Thus corruption formula is: {Total useful project} / {Total government income} == total corruption.
Upon more reflection, I think the basic problem I have is the label "corruption" for funds and resources not available for building or improvement. A better label would be something along the lines of "unavailable" or "other" or "local allocations". Not all use of resources outside of useful projects" are corruption. For example, is social security wasteful? probably. Does social security have corruption? probably. Is social security therefore totally a corruption effect? no.
Even if the nation's number were doubled to 2% that pales in comparison to the more than 50% that we pay in taxes. {34% fed, 5% state, x% real estate {1%?}, y% sales tax {7%?}, z% taxes on businesses passed on to consumer {15%?}. Last time I checked those funds are not restricted to
-- military units
-- infrastructure improvements
-- wonders/great wonders
{do civs even do this today? }
Wonder how much waste there is in our form of government?
+ income taxes
+ business taxes
+ sales taxes
+ usage and ownership taxes
= total government income.
- military
- science
- wonders and great wonders
- city/state/fed improvements {Interstate, internet}
= total useful projects
Thus corruption formula is: {Total useful project} / {Total government income} == total corruption.
Upon more reflection, I think the basic problem I have is the label "corruption" for funds and resources not available for building or improvement. A better label would be something along the lines of "unavailable" or "other" or "local allocations". Not all use of resources outside of useful projects" are corruption. For example, is social security wasteful? probably. Does social security have corruption? probably. Is social security therefore totally a corruption effect? no.
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