With this latest patch I've noticed that happiness (at least on Deity) spirals completely out of control in situations where I'm pretty sure it would have been stable in the previous patch. But there's nothing about happiness in the patch notes. I'm watching Martin Fencka's latest series on YT and he's having the same issue. It seems to be mainly Poverty and Distress going crazy. For now I'll just drop the difficulty and deal with it, but just curious if anyone has any insight on what's happening with the mechanics.
How did happiness change so much when there were no actual changes to the happiness system?
Nightmare Dusk
Warlord
My guess is because of the decrease in tech costs. As you and the bots research more techs, the requirements in your city go up. In order to prevent this, you need to build more buildings in that city. With how fast we unlock techs now, the production of buildings in cities can't keep up as well anymore, causing unhappyness issues
Edit: My roommate and I play on king difficultly and i've had problems with scenarios that never had problem with happyness before now
Edit: My roommate and I play on king difficultly and i've had problems with scenarios that never had problem with happyness before now
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RedHotTomato
Chieftain
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- 49
I am also having issue with Deity. Whenever a Civ declares war on me, my happiness will drop significantly even without War Wariness. It always stay between 35-38% happiness, and when the war is over it will go back up to 50%. Without war it always stay at 50%. This is so frustrating, did not have this issue in couple patch back.
General_Drax
Warlord
Not only Deity. Same issue on Emperor. King is manageable in my experience.
Add the bribed wars and the interlaced Dps and you have quiet a (daunting) challenging scenario regarding happiness.
Add the bribed wars and the interlaced Dps and you have quiet a (daunting) challenging scenario regarding happiness.
JamesNinelives
Emperor
I often give myself a significant buffer zone of happiness so I've noticed it but not finding it as much of an issue. I play on Emperor at the moment.
I do agree that tech speed makes a significant difference. Peace vs. war is also important because war costs resources and it also affects luxury trading, trade routes, and city-state friendships.
I do agree that tech speed makes a significant difference. Peace vs. war is also important because war costs resources and it also affects luxury trading, trade routes, and city-state friendships.
It's not that there are not issues but a lot of them can be overcome by adapting to them, knowing about them and playing into them. The mechanics are a lot less forgiving and require more of you then previously.
You can't play the current patch as you played the previous and last batch of patches. But it can be played and you can adjust and overcome those poverty and distress issues. The classic-medieval period is going to suck a bit as the AI powerspike mostly from settling and you just have to live thru that and build and prepare for the renaissance-industrial era when if you did it right will catapult you back into the game again.
I don't see how dropping difficulty will really help or change. Sure the AI will be somewhat more forgiving about your less then optimal play as it gets less bonuses but then you won't really improve or learn anything will you?
While I don't really follow him I have previously seen some, or quite a few, episodes and a lot of Fencka's issues are, or was, issues of his own creation. He is, or was, quite poor when it came to adapting to how the game changes. As I recall he was fairly good at doing war but he was quite poor at the empire building and management aspect of the game. Instead he played each and every game more or less as his previous game irregardless of settings and civilization. His game depended on the eternal war to solve his issues by conquest and when that broke down or wasn't possible his game broke down. He did, or does, the same things over and over again and gets surprised when he doesn't get the results he got in previous patches and then he whines about that or some aspect of the game not working as he thinks it should work.
I had a quick glance at one of the current episodes (Spain). It's hard to judge cause you don't know what he sees or does between episodes etc. But just from a glance he doesn't appear to have changed much. He has poor trading skills, he still doesn't appear to understand how the happiness system works, he works to many specialists, he wastes his gold buying units (which doesn't solve any of his empire issues), he builds buildings in the wrong order, he has a lot of religious issues (as Spain!) -- the entire religion is built around war but he completely missed the early war window and is now stuck behind peaceful and more powerful AIs (which he whines about), he refused to spread his religion as Spain and have some minor happiness issues from it. I might have missed some but that appear to be the state of his game.
You can't play the current patch as you played the previous and last batch of patches. But it can be played and you can adjust and overcome those poverty and distress issues. The classic-medieval period is going to suck a bit as the AI powerspike mostly from settling and you just have to live thru that and build and prepare for the renaissance-industrial era when if you did it right will catapult you back into the game again.
I don't see how dropping difficulty will really help or change. Sure the AI will be somewhat more forgiving about your less then optimal play as it gets less bonuses but then you won't really improve or learn anything will you?
While I don't really follow him I have previously seen some, or quite a few, episodes and a lot of Fencka's issues are, or was, issues of his own creation. He is, or was, quite poor when it came to adapting to how the game changes. As I recall he was fairly good at doing war but he was quite poor at the empire building and management aspect of the game. Instead he played each and every game more or less as his previous game irregardless of settings and civilization. His game depended on the eternal war to solve his issues by conquest and when that broke down or wasn't possible his game broke down. He did, or does, the same things over and over again and gets surprised when he doesn't get the results he got in previous patches and then he whines about that or some aspect of the game not working as he thinks it should work.
I had a quick glance at one of the current episodes (Spain). It's hard to judge cause you don't know what he sees or does between episodes etc. But just from a glance he doesn't appear to have changed much. He has poor trading skills, he still doesn't appear to understand how the happiness system works, he works to many specialists, he wastes his gold buying units (which doesn't solve any of his empire issues), he builds buildings in the wrong order, he has a lot of religious issues (as Spain!) -- the entire religion is built around war but he completely missed the early war window and is now stuck behind peaceful and more powerful AIs (which he whines about), he refused to spread his religion as Spain and have some minor happiness issues from it. I might have missed some but that appear to be the state of his game.
JamesNinelives
Emperor
I mean... a lot? The AI gets less bonuses so the power spikes are less noticeable and the tech pace you are competing against slows down.
I learn something every time I play. I don't have to play on the hardest possible settings I can manage every time. Life is hard enough already, sometimes it's fun to just try something and see what happens (without everything exploding if you get it wrong)
.
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Delvemor
Warlord
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- Feb 8, 2020
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I agree poverty and distress are much more of an issue that before. I find Public Works to be very useful to alleviate the situation though. The biggest change for me has been to have to build Public Works even while I was not playing as a warmonger. It was a big surprise initially but now I'm fine. I alternate between Emperor and Immortal difficulty.
Edit: Also you better get your broadcast towers soon, otherwise your people will get incredibly bored very quickly. Forget about using your circus for a free WLTKD too, you will most likely need them sooner than later.
Edit: Also you better get your broadcast towers soon, otherwise your people will get incredibly bored very quickly. Forget about using your circus for a free WLTKD too, you will most likely need them sooner than later.
I noticed a difference but, Im used to wide warmongering and adapting to low happiness on emperor.
I have to be more willing to raze or puppet instead of annex at times.
It means building even more public works (important to spread them out and not just grind pub works in one or two cities).
There are way less opportunities to trade lux which will also impacts happiness, but thats the cause of bribe wars and massive DPs.
So yes its harder and the diplo situation makes it harder again but I wouldnt say that the unhappiness is unplayable (the diplo situation is however for me).
I have to be more willing to raze or puppet instead of annex at times.
It means building even more public works (important to spread them out and not just grind pub works in one or two cities).
There are way less opportunities to trade lux which will also impacts happiness, but thats the cause of bribe wars and massive DPs.
So yes its harder and the diplo situation makes it harder again but I wouldnt say that the unhappiness is unplayable (the diplo situation is however for me).
RedHotTomato
Chieftain
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Anyone win on deity yet in this patch? I've only played on deity and I'm having trouble to win (3 tries so far on, epic speed standard map, using non-aggressive Civ).
I always manage to defend myself even when AI is 10-12 techs ahead of me. But when i am about to catch up, sanction ban will occur and i will not be able to send trade routes to get the science.
Happiness definitely caused many of the problems, thus i would like to hear some strategy to win Deity. Many thanks!
I always manage to defend myself even when AI is 10-12 techs ahead of me. But when i am about to catch up, sanction ban will occur and i will not be able to send trade routes to get the science.
Happiness definitely caused many of the problems, thus i would like to hear some strategy to win Deity. Many thanks!
Even tho there are things I dislike with this patch I am in the opinion that the hardest difficulty should be really brutal, and that seems to be the case atm.
(it tends to hurt some diety players ego but not all)
ICanHasName?
Warlord
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- Feb 24, 2009
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- 272
I think ai improvements and faster tech mean you will potentially be more behind on diety, and thus more behind in keeping up with unhappiness.
I have found you need to focus on unhappiness in a few key cities. Say you have 10 pop cities and they each would have 15 unhappiness which is capped at 10. Building one unhappiness reduction building in each means they have 14 unhappiness capped at 10.
Instead, focus on getting rid of unhappiness in a few high quality cities. Concentrate trade routes to eliminate poverty and illiteracy in two cities. Your capitol and best other city are good bets for places where that gold or hammers from a trade route will actually count.
I have found you need to focus on unhappiness in a few key cities. Say you have 10 pop cities and they each would have 15 unhappiness which is capped at 10. Building one unhappiness reduction building in each means they have 14 unhappiness capped at 10.
Instead, focus on getting rid of unhappiness in a few high quality cities. Concentrate trade routes to eliminate poverty and illiteracy in two cities. Your capitol and best other city are good bets for places where that gold or hammers from a trade route will actually count.
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Unless I missed a patch, yes (new celts stuff was along side with the faster tech so I don't think so).
I play standard speed so I have no clue how much difference epic speed makes but I'd suggest authority opening so I doubt epic is harder for that. Deity civs are pretty aggressive and only really respect strength so having more stuff early makes everything easier so having a good early gamer build helps a lot.
Pick a powerful civ, some are just better than others, most are fine but you want early game advantages. I like Assyria , Netherlands and Celts. Build some earlier warriors and upgrade them so you can tribute CS, the bonuses there are huge early game, civs with UU here helps but isn't essential. you don't need be super aggressive towards the AI to use authority, they will often attack you and its bonuses will help you defend and give you something for building defensive units. Ideally you draw out a defensive war then make someone your vassal for a large bonus and smaller wargonger penalty. Sanctions matter a lot less when you have multiple vassals.
I'm currently playing a wide Progress game with Babylon (13 cities) and have found that I need to periodically stop growth in many of my cities until they catch up with buildings. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with stopping growth in satellite cities (is there a point in having population if there are no really useful tiles available?), but that's only because I don't have a better approach (I'm not an expert in VP).
(I'm not an expert in VP).
PhilMyBelly
Chieftain
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- 41
Same here, playing wide progress as Spain with 15 cities. Always battling to stay a few point above 50%. And by that I mean that all my cities have 50% except the capital. I need to stop growth in all my cities for it to stay above 50% because even if one of my other cities starts doing better because i built buildings, as soon as you grow 1 pop it goes back to unhappiness ( for example a 7/7 city, became 7/0, then grew it to 8 and it was having 8/9 happiness). So basically you have no growth margin except in your capital in my experience.I'm currently playing a wide Progress game with Babylon (13 cities) and have found that I need to periodically stop growth in many of my cities until they catch up with buildings. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with stopping growth in satellite cities (is there a point in having population if there are no really useful tiles available?), but that's only because I don't have a better approach
SuperNoobCamper
King
I did report the happiness issue in the last patch and it seems to be the case in the current patch.
Currently the strategy that works best for me is capital+ 3 or 4 satellite cities Authority warmonger; you don't get the huge empire size modifier for needs with 4 cities and you get to choose the most effecient citiy spots letting the AI settle the rest of the non optimal (including ok cities but not amazing ones) then going on a conquest spree in the late classical/early medieval.
It works pretty well on Emperor/Immortal.
Currently the strategy that works best for me is capital+ 3 or 4 satellite cities Authority warmonger; you don't get the huge empire size modifier for needs with 4 cities and you get to choose the most effecient citiy spots letting the AI settle the rest of the non optimal (including ok cities but not amazing ones) then going on a conquest spree in the late classical/early medieval.
It works pretty well on Emperor/Immortal.
Playing huge immortal map as Assyria, AIs are definitely keeping up with techs longer now and Happiness is more difficult to manage now, but not impossible. Was hovering about 40% mark until industrial. Upon founding corporations problem disappeared and I'm now rolling at 100% ~(1000/200) depending how deep into war I am.
RedHotTomato
Chieftain
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- Jul 7, 2017
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- 49
Thank you ICanHasName? & Stii for the suggestions, always appreciate the help!
I will have to fine-tune my gameplay to continue playing in deity
Probably the map type i chose is not the best (Fractal / Continent) for deity. As the 3 games I played, the rest of the AIs are in the other continent, which limits my trading route whenever the one AI in my continent declares war on me.
And early game they had captured all the neighbouring CS, thus I was only able to trade internally.
I guess in conclusion that we have to be aggressive early on to win a deity game, if not it will be impossible to catch up!
I will have to fine-tune my gameplay to continue playing in deity
Probably the map type i chose is not the best (Fractal / Continent) for deity. As the 3 games I played, the rest of the AIs are in the other continent, which limits my trading route whenever the one AI in my continent declares war on me.
And early game they had captured all the neighbouring CS, thus I was only able to trade internally.
I guess in conclusion that we have to be aggressive early on to win a deity game, if not it will be impossible to catch up!
Deity is an accumulation of powerful/broken things. There are lot of different things you can do and it is pretty hard to do all of them but you certainly need to do some.
For example selling strat/lux to the AI is worth a lot of money and even more so if you get a DoF. the amount the AI offers isn't what they claim if you look at the values, you can get it to -49 and they will still switch over to acceptable. So if you do lots of small trades with a friends you can get a lot of extra money, you do need to do it over multiple turns to not have it bug out. And this whole thing is right on the edge of being a bug in the first place.
You also also really min/max lots of minor things, adjusting city production to take a turn off a building, only really worth it right at the start but it does have an effort. And really minor stuff like moving a worker one title and starting an improvement, then cancelling and moving onto the title you really want to improve. You certainly don't to go this far to win at deity but there are always areas to improve.
I found out recently that I was wrong to lock my cities to production because this mod changes when production was generated.
For example selling strat/lux to the AI is worth a lot of money and even more so if you get a DoF. the amount the AI offers isn't what they claim if you look at the values, you can get it to -49 and they will still switch over to acceptable. So if you do lots of small trades with a friends you can get a lot of extra money, you do need to do it over multiple turns to not have it bug out. And this whole thing is right on the edge of being a bug in the first place.
You also also really min/max lots of minor things, adjusting city production to take a turn off a building, only really worth it right at the start but it does have an effort. And really minor stuff like moving a worker one title and starting an improvement, then cancelling and moving onto the title you really want to improve. You certainly don't to go this far to win at deity but there are always areas to improve.
I found out recently that I was wrong to lock my cities to production because this mod changes when production was generated.
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