how did people play in Civ before computers?

[alex sword]

Check this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6955249.stm

Very strange thing is that this game has been forbidden per German laws but computer civ has not. In my opinion, though, civ 4 provides players with much better genocide options.

 

[Invero]

It has nothing to do with genocide per se. Here in Germany anything that has to do with the Nazi Regime is forbidden, like the Swastika (Not sure if I spelled it right in english), the Nazi flagg, the SS signs, the Hitler Grüss (you know, when you lift your right arm...) and all those kinds of stuff, so in Civ4 since there is no such thing, it's not forbidden.

For instance in Medal of Honor Allied Assault, when you play multiplayer, there is a map where some flags hang from a wall with the Swastika on them, here they had to change it, because otherwise, they wouldn't be allowed to sell it.

Saludos!

 

[alex sword]

There is no any swastika, at least, in this picture:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/uk_enl_1187619533/html/1.stm

for me, the picture looks like more Civ than a board game. If they added there a couple of workers and fish/pig resources, I would not be able to find a difference at all .

 

[Evil Twin]

You apparently missed the parts where it said "made in the Third Reich", "U-Boat" and "1939".

 

[AThousandYoung]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_(board_game)

 

[Syntherio]

Under German law, items from the Third Reich period are unable to be sold in the country.

Not true...
Just NS-Propaganda and NS-symbols are banned. No Matter if its a flag, a picture, a song or a boardgame. Civilization is hardly Nazi-Propaganda, isnt it?

 

[alex sword]

Civilization is hardly Nazi-Propaganda, isnt it?

Heh... Good question. It depends on how someone answers the question - if the game provides an ability of a great deal of massacre - is it Nazi-Propaganda or no? For me, no. But you know, these laws and government clerks are now and then not very predictable. For me, there is no difference if an ability to attack England by German is provided by a board game or by a computer game. That's a game. But one day government people decide the board game is forbidden. What if tomorrow they will say the computer game is forbidden?????

Hopefully, they won't. It looks like it is going to cost them a number of electors , in any country.

 

[3 EMS]

Before computers I didn't play CIV. I played smear the queer with the ball.

 

[Maceman]

Heh... Good question. It depends on how someone answers the question - if the game provides an ability of a great deal of massacre - is it Nazi-Propaganda or no? For me, no. But you know, these laws and government clerks are now and then not very predictable. For me, there is no difference if an ability to attack England by German is provided by a board game or by a computer game. That's a game. But one day government people decide the board game is forbidden. What if tomorrow they will say the computer game is forbidden?????

Hopefully, they won't. It looks like it is going to cost them a number of electors , in any country.

The game would not be forbidden, but set on the index, that means, banned from the stores. This happened for example to "command and conquer generals", because in this game you can kill civilians and use nukes...
We don't know these things from Civ, right?

However, I don't see that a ban for Civ is on the way, but since politicians have no clue of computer games, you never know...

 

[Honos]

QUESTION: As I don't know much about german politics, is there no such thing in Germany similar to the USA first amendment (ie. freedom of speech/press)? Reason I ask, is even though I dispise the Nazi regime, I can't see the American government being able to outlaw such things without a huge civil rights lawsuit slapped against them.

 

[ori]

QUESTION: As I don't know much about german politics, is there no such thing in Germany similar to the USA first amendment (ie. freedom of speech/press)? Reason I ask, is even though I dispise the Nazi regime, I can't see the American government being able to outlaw such things without a huge civil rights lawsuit slapped against them.

I seem to recall a thread about this on these forums about every other week or so
So lets make it short shall we?
Yes there is Freedom of Speech in Germany and how do you think is it allowed in the US to censor depiction of nakedness in games thats also Freedom of Speech isn't it? Bottomline: Germany has restrictions on advertising and the sale of material that graphically depicts violence or is deemed nazi propaganda, the US has restrictions on advertising and the sale of material that shows some hint of a naked human form
Also I seem to recall a US Supreme Court decision that effectively denied students at or in front of their school any rights from freedom of speech a few weeks ago, so don't tell me the first amendment trumps everything else
Edit: to the OP as also shown in the article those games were wartime games that were produced to shore up domestic support for defeating the British, they are undoubtedly nazi propaganda and I am 100% certain that this "they were forbidden" in Germany is utter nonsense, as with all this stuff you can sell it you just cannot display it in your shop or advertise it. If someone comes to your antiques shop and asks you about stuff like this you can sell it to them.

 

[Honos]

I seem to recall a thread about this on these forums about every other week or so
So lets make it short:
Yes there is Freedom of Speech in Germany and how do you think is it allowed in the US to censor depiction of nakedness in games thats also Freedom of Speech isn't it? Bottomline: Germany has restrictions on advertising and the sale of games that graphically depict violence or are deemed nazi propaganda, the US has restrictions on advertising and the sale of games that show some hint of a naked human form

Actually, they don't ban games with naked human form... Company choose to not make those kind of games to avoid a "M" (Mature) rating. I know of several games with nudity in them, but are "M" and thus don't appeal to the teenage masses who can't buy them.

I know the US can censor things on public airwaves (Radio,TV) for nudity and foul language. However, they cannot on private airwaves (Satellite, Cable).

So in a way, its not the same. As a game is private... sold / bought privately.

Thanks for the reply though... it makes sense. But a reminder for me as why any speech (for good or ill) should not be censored.

 

[ori]

Actually, they don't ban games with naked human form... Company choose to not make those kind of games to avoid a "M" (Mature) rating. I know of several games with nudity in them, but are "M" and thus don't appeal to the teenage masses who can't buy them.

I know the US can censor things on public airwaves (Radio,TV) for nudity and foul language. However, they cannot on private airwaves (Satellite, Cable).

So in a way, its not the same. As a game is private... sold / bought privately.

Thanks for the reply though... it makes sense. But a reminder for me as why any speech (for good or ill) should not be censored.

You see apart from very few things this is true for these kinds of games in germany as well - in the US you don't show naked forms because otherwise you cannot make a profit (because of the M rating) in Germany you don't depict violence against humans because otherwise you cannot make a profit (because you are not allowed to display the game in store or advertise it - mind you you can still sell it to anyone over 18) - the thing with nazi propaganda is that only very few items that qualify for that are really banned, most fall under the same category as violence (can be sold, not advertised).

 

[Vektram]

Child pornography is illegal to own/make/sell in the United States. I'd see that as infringement of the first ammendment, but a good one.

Simply put: the US does not have as many restrictions as other countries, but they still exist (and they're definately not a bad thing in most cases)