How diverse is civ6?

[The Civs 6]

I think another important nod to diversity would be some sort of acknowledgment of the the PRC and the Soviet Union. Yes, those are problematic places to go. But they undeniably represent the most "4x-y" non-European, indeed, anti-European polities since the 1800's.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think another important nod to diversity would be some sort of acknowledgment of the the PRC and the Soviet Union. Yes, those are problematic places to go. But they undeniably represent the most "4x-y" non-European, indeed, anti-European polities since the 1800's.

But those are governments not "civs"

 

[Xandinho]

The design of civ6's expansions - always containing a reasonably split around geographical areas - makes me think diversity is a goal of firaxis', but that being practical civ is a franchise with a lot of history. People buy it expecting to be able to play certain leaders and civs based on previous, less diverse iterations - and that's a lot of weight to shift. The base game was euro centric (~40% european civs I think?), but most of them were the 'core' civs... Expansions have pushed the geographic frontier quite well. So maybe the solution to more diversity is to request more expansions or to push some european civs into expansions... Or both?

Yeah, Civ6 is by far the most diverse edition of the franchise, and this is very good. We have civs that some people could never have expected a few years ago: Georgia, Mapuche, Maori, Gran Colombia, even Nubia I never expected. I'm very sure that in Civ7 they can bring an even more diverse game.

 

[The Civs 6]

But those are governments not "civs"

I'm not saying they should be their own civs so much as they represent very historically significant manifestations of the "underlying" civs. Like Constantinople, I'm not sure it rises to the level of deserving its own Civ, but it should be in the game somehow.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Civ looks at Europe through a microscope and the rest of the world through a telescope. But I think the solution is rethinking our approach to Europe rather than to the rest of the world. For example, and I say this as an American, do Canadians, Australians, English and Americans really constitute four different civilizations? I see us as a continuous civilization with shared culture and political beliefs, etc. To put it another way, it's strange that each European nation-state gets representation (looking at you, sweden and Scotland), but all of the Maya/Turks/Egyptians etc. get blobbed together.

As an American I'd have to disagree. I'm sure you heard of the revolution where we decided to get rid of the monarchy. I can't speak about the others but Americans do things politically different from the others.

I think Mexico is about as worthy of an inclusion as Italy, for what it's worth. But you throw out this polity called "Muisca". I did a quick Wikipedia search and the researchers estimate that only, at most, 3 million people were a part of this entity. Why should they be included? I would ask this question about any entity that someone suggested should be included.

To be fair the Muisca were one of the 4 advanced Pre-Colombian civilizations of the Americans. Obviously they aren't as well known as the Aztecs, Maya or Inca but I think that they could be considered at some point, if the Mapuche got in.
Probably for Civ 7 because they just got a city-state in NFP.

One thing I can't help thinking about is how Civ's refusal to include post-World War 2 elements actually is harmful to non-European representation.

After all, countries like Iraq, Vietnam, Mexico and Nigeria are among the most populous - more so than countries like France or England, let alone the Netherlands or Sweden. Certainly at least some of these countries will be significant geopolitical players in the next 200 years. It's hard to point to exactly what kind of Civ they would be, but just food for thought.

Well it's a possibility we'll find out in January because it looks like Vietnam will be coming.

I think another important nod to diversity would be some sort of acknowledgment of the the PRC and the Soviet Union. Yes, those are problematic places to go. But they undeniably represent the most "4x-y" non-European, indeed, anti-European polities since the 1800's.

Those would best be represented by alternate leaders probably for China or Russia if they ever do that.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Yeah, Civ6 is by far the most diverse edition of the franchise, and this is very good. We have civs that some people could never have expected a few years ago: Georgia, Mapuche, Maori, Gran Colombia, even Nubia I never expected. I'm very sure that in Civ7 they can bring an even more diverse game.

Kongo, Khmer, Cree, and Vietnam too, even though it's not been released yet.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Kongo, Khmer, Cree, and Vietnam too, even though it's not been released yet.

The Khmer were already introduced in Civ 4.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

The Khmer were already introduced in Civ 4.

Well then ignore that part, please.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I think another important nod to diversity would be some sort of acknowledgment of the the PRC and the Soviet Union. Yes, those are problematic places to go. But they undeniably represent the most "4x-y" non-European, indeed, anti-European polities since the 1800's.

PRC, probably not, but the Soviet union then I don't see why not. I don't see any potential backlash from representing the soviet union.

 

[The Civs 6]

PRC, probably not, but the Soviet union then I don't see why not. I don't see any potential backlash from representing the soviet union.

I know why they do it, but I feel like the game's refusal to deal with post WW2 history contributes to the late game being so colorless. And, turning back to the OP, it also contributes to lack of diversity by not representing the Cold War/multi-polarization.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I know why they do it, but I feel like the game's refusal to deal with post WW2 history contributes to the late game being so colorless. And, turning back to the OP, it also contributes to lack of diversity by not representing the Cold War/multi-polarization.

Civ4 was the last time Firaxis included controversial leaders. Without any disrespect, the OP's intention didn't go any deeper than the geographical representation.
"Two major civs border one another? Bad! Two small tribes in a forsaken corner of the planet? Good!"

 

[The Civs 6]

Civ4 was the last time Firaxis included controversial leaders. Without any disrespect, the OP's intention didn't go any deeper than the geographical representation.
"Two major civs border one another? Bad! Two small tribes in a forsaken corner of the planet? Good!"

the solution is obviously a Quebecois civ.

/ducks from incoming hate mail by Canadian posters

 

[Linklite]

Civ4 was the last time Firaxis included controversial leaders. Without any disrespect, the OP's intention didn't go any deeper than the geographical representation.
"Two major civs border one another? Bad! Two small tribes in a forsaken corner of the planet? Good!"

Which controversial leaders did they have?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Which controversial leaders did they have?

Oh... Just Mao Zedong.

 

[The Civs 6]

Oh... Just Mao Zedong.

Yep. Certainly no one else I can think of, like a communist ruler from the 1930's and 40's. That's right...

FDR.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: We're headed into politics and current events. Sure to get this thread closed.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Which controversial leaders did they have?

Oh... Just Mao Zedong.

Don't forget Stalin.

 

[The Civs 6]

Anyway...

Another thing I notice about the map and blank space is that almost all of China is devoid of civs except, well, China. I wonder if another affirmative action Civ designers could take for diversity would be to consider creating a pre-Qin state, Tibet, or something like that. I don't really know the pre-1800 history of the region very well but I have to imagine there are some good candidates.

Another way to approach this would be to recast Qin Shihuang's China as a separate Civ from post-San Guo era China, and to make the latter more built around science/economy.

 

[Equilin]

I think Inuit would actually fits nicely in Civ's native north american representative slot. Civ is diverse enough to allow that without pushing anyone else out. People will definitely buy the igloos too!

If there is anything Eurocentric in Civ6 it's the tech tree.

 

[The Civs 6]

I think Inuit would actually fits nicely in Civ's native north american representative slot. Civ is diverse enough to allow that without pushing anyone else out.

If there is anything Eurocentric in Civ6 it's the tech tree.

Yes thank you! And the civics tree x 2. Like I'm playing as China and for some reason I'm going into the middle ages?