How do Erlenmeyer flasks (science research expenditures) translate into tech advances

Khshayarsha

Shahanshah
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
115
Location
Persepolis
In the City Display box, you can see how much of a city's tax revenue goes toward science research. The quantity of a city's science production is represented in Erlenmeyer flasks, similar to the shields, slices of bread, and stacks of coins that represent other kinds of production.

When you build Library, you can see the number of Erlenmeyer flasks increase to one and a half times the size it was before. Likewise for University and Research Lab. Certain Great Wonders double the number of Erlenmeyer flasks.

So how many more Erlenmeyer flasks does it take every turn in order to make a noticeable difference in the number of turns needed to research a new tech? (Assuming that the science spending slider is left at the same position, say 50%. I know that the science spending slider makes an obvious difference in the tech advance rate. I'm trying to isolate the factor of increasing the number of Erlenmeyer flasks.)

The manual only says that adding Libraries, Universities, etc. will make your tech research go faster. It doesn't explain quantitatively. My question is: How many Erlenmeyer flasks do you need to increase per turn to get, say, one turn shaved off your tech research time?

Also, how many Scientists do you need to appoint in a city to make another Erlenmeyer flask per turn? How many Scientists do you need to reduce the research time by one turn?
 
Each tech costs n -- the number of Erlenmeyer flasks- to build. Each scientist (pre-C3C) adds one Erlenmeyer flask to your ability. (Or as we call `em at CFC, "beakers" ;) )


This is, of course, how I understand it. :)
 
I know "beakers" is easier to say, but they ain't beakers. Beakers have straight sides.
 
I've heard-- well, read-- "flasks" being used, but most people use beakers. And I think in C3C, the scientists provide 2 (or 3?) flasks as opposed to the Civ3/PTW quanity of one.
 
Once you get a library in a commerce rich city you should realize a cut down in time it takes to research. Also when there are only a coupld of turns left of reasearch try cutting science funding as it normally can be finished in the same time, but you get more money.
 
Right, I know about the slider that can be dropped on the turn before the tech is finished. In Ancient times you might save 1 or 2 Gold that way in a turn. In the Modern times, you can save as much as a whopping 600+ Gold in a turn. It depends. Sometimes you can't drop even a single notch in spending without adding another turn to finish the tech. Sometimes you can drop 8 or 9 notches and rake in huge gobs of cash.

But I wasn't asking about the slider. Its operation is out in the open and well known to all of us.

I was wondering if anyone can quantify the relationship between flasks produced in the cities and faster tech. For example: How many Libraries do you need to build before the tech is achieved in one turn less? (The slider setting being equal.)
 
The techs cost a flat amount (depending on the tech). You can find the exact amount for each tech in the editor. (I'm not sure if difficulty level affects this amount, I've never looked.)

So you are accumulating beakers towards this total each turn until the tech is researched. That means to be able to calculate how many you need, you also need to know how many you've spent. Short of keeping track of it manually, I don't know any way that you can get this info.
 
Originally posted by ainwood
The techs have a base cost, and a modified cost, which depends on how many civs that you have contact with have the tech. Use Grey Fox's techcalc to get the in-game cost. :)

Grey Fox's tech calc is very helpful. As ainwood points out, the "base" tech cost is influenced by a variety of modifiers -- in addition to the number of known civs that have the tech, it is also influenced by map size, difficulty level, certain player settings (accelerated production), etc.
 
The beakers you produce each turn are summed until their number is equal to or exceeds the modified cost of the tech you have told your adviser to research. At that point the tech is researched, and you can select a new tech to research. So there is no direct relationship between the number of libraries you have and the number of turns you shave off your research times. Libraries make your cities produce more beakers, therefore the beaker sum increases faster, meaning you get to your modified tech cost faster.
 
OK, now we're getting somewhere. I see that the base cost for Bronze Working, to take one example, is expressed as 72 units of Gold.

So how many flasks (they're not beakers, they're flasks) per turn equal one unit of Gold toward the tech cost?
 
Check your editor more often. The cost of Bronze Working is 3, which translates into a cost of 30 beakers. I will quote from the editor help:

Cost (Civilization Advance)
Determines the cost, in beakers, of researching the selected advance. Note that this value is multiplied by a cost factor which determines how many beakers it actually costs to research the selected advance. The human player's cost factor is always 10.

Note two things. First is that we were wrong up there to say that the human advance cost is modified. Second is that science points are referred to as beakers and not flasks. We don't refer to commerce points as stacks of gold, even though that is what the picture is. Therefore, use the correct terminology.

Science cost is not measured in units of gold, it is measured in beakers. Every turn you generate a certain amount of beakers from various places. These beakers are added to your beaker "fund". As soon as the fund is larger or equal to the cost of the advance you are researching, the advance is researched, and the fund is reset to zero. If you switch advances, the fund is reset to zero.

EDIT: I do believe, however, the "Tech rate" on the various map sizes alters either the cost of each advance or the amount of beakers you actually generate each turn (most likely the former). It is the same for humans and AI on a given map size, though.
 
Top Bottom