How do you counter diplomatic marriage?

[Sherlock]

Austria is ridiculously over powered with the ability to grab CS's.

I'm on a map now where Austria was about half of my score, now they are 200 points ahead of me. Yup, they marry CS's, I loose allies, units, culture, science, etc.

What happens if I attack one of these CS's? I'm at war with Austria, but can I 'liberate' the city?

I guess every map with Austria turns you into a war-monger.

Any suggestions?

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Well not one you may like, but I removed her folder. Her UA was badly thought out, one that can ruin one whole aspect of the game. I do not miss her at all, but I removed her as soon as I d/l game.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

You can't liberate them once they are married. The best way to deal with Austria (without simply wiping them out) is preventative measures. Sell her all your resources, embassies, open borders, etc. That way she has less money. If she allies with a city-state, spend that cash and up the ante. Out bid her for the favor of city-states. That way you can keep them out of her hands. You have to be vigilant.

 

[Peacemongerer]

From what I understand, a married CS is treated like a city founded by Austria, as it generates no extra unhappiness and requires no courthouse. If that's the case, then liberation would be impossible.

The only way I see to deal with it is to crush Austria early in the game before she can start annexing (I've smashed her in 3 of the 4 games I've played before she even got her 2nd city just to avoid this, in this 4th one I'm playing she's absolutely broke and a non-threat).

 

[Miravlix]

The counter is to not let her ally CS.

And no you can't liberate them, they become Austrian cities fully after being married.

 

[Khadroth]

I've still yet to see Austria marry a CS, though probably because she's only been in one of my games so far. Out of curiosity, what happens to the UN when this happens? Does she get an automatic vote? Or does it simply remove that vote and reduce the total number of votes available?

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

It might be fun to see her slug it out with Siam and Greece.

 

[Vatras]

I get unhappiness from marrying a CS, btw, but I don't need a courthouse. You cannot "liberate" a CS after marriage, but feel free to conquer or buy them from Austria.

The alternate way is to leave Austria be - that is not really a problem, since she isn't a warmonger herself. In fact, she is making diplomatic victories easier for you, as she reduces the number of votes...it is less difficult to get 12 votes than 20.
(I don't rely much on CS, so I don't have to fear her.)

 

[dexters]

I find deletion of Austria a tad overdramatic.

I think it adds flavour and TBH its no better or worse than Alex or Siam allying with every CS on the planet and couping your CS allies making your spend cash.

While the AI may diplomatically marry CS near it due to early interactions, unless it is really dominant directing your spies to coup CS you want to protect and making her spend more gold is a viable option.

But really, when a CS-centric AI like Siam, Alex or Austrian are dominant, they are a pain. This is not entirely Austria's problem. The ally as many CS as possible then DoW gambit doesn't work very well now either since relations go back to where they were, less natural decay.

There's nothing wrong with this UA. My only recommendation is a more nuanced set of code whereby cost of marriage should = 500 base PLUS 1/2 the equivalent gold cost to 'buy out' the influence of the next highest influence in the CS with the extra gold going to the Civ who was friends/allied to it.

Further, make it such that the CS can be liberated.

 

[nefloyd]

The static cost for marriage should really be some form of increasing cost instead

 

[FreedomFighter]

mostly i just try to sell everything to her to reduce her income, that's most viable way to do plus it increase your income : )
but if her city have most everything in and situation gone bad enough then i just declare war and raid her city, reduce her down but not completely kill her off.

another problem is if she spawn in other continent then that's gonna end up nasty.

 

[BobDole]

Just put her down early and don't let her turn into a runaway civ (not always possible if she ends up on another continent). If she gets going and starts piling up cash, then you can say goodbye to most of the city-states on the map. If she can't do that, she's seemingly no threat at all (at least in my playthroughs). I've had her in numerous games, and if she doesn't runaway, she ends up irrelevant/dead.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

The static cost for marriage should really be some form of increasing cost instead

I agree...and it should ramp up fairly steeply too. I played my 2nd game of G&K as Austria and it was ridiculously easy. 500g bought me large, fully developed cities and modern (for the era of purchase) militaries. I dont think I actually BUILT more than 3 military units the whole game...I just bought new CS's and used their militaries.

I like the concept of the ability, but it should be more difficult or more expensive to use IMO.

 

[bonafide11]

I had her in my first game and that was it. This was before all of the "Austria is OP" threads so I wasn't scared of her, but I attacked her anyway and took her capital during the medieval ages. She kept a couple small cities, but wasn't a thread all game and never married any city-states. It was an effective way to counter her.

 

[Halcyan2]

In the few times I've played against her, I've found that the Austrian AI tends to Ally with a CS one turn and then Marry in a subsequent turn. I have not seen it instantly Ally + Marry all in one turn - if anyone has seen this happen, please let us know!

If that is indeed the case, then the instant Austria allies with a CS, then make sure you ally with that CS before Austria gets another turn.

Also, I get the feeling that Austria considers CS proximity when it decides whether or not to marry. If that is indeed the case, you should prioritize CS that are nearby (as opposed to ones that are far away).

Maybe you can play certain maps (like Pangaea Plus) where the CS are far away? Also, Pangaea Plus means that you won't discover CS for quite some time.

 

[Sherlock]

I remember when she was half my size. Now it's 1500 and she has grabbed up all the city states on our continent.

And she's attacked me. Great. I like the 'deleting the Austria folder' plan. Either than, or next time I see her I will attack on sight.

 

[PhilBowles]

From what I understand, a married CS is treated like a city founded by Austria, as it generates no extra unhappiness and requires no courthouse. If that's the case, then liberation would be impossible.

The only way I see to deal with it is to crush Austria early in the game before she can start annexing (I've smashed her in 3 of the 4 games I've played before she even got her 2nd city just to avoid this, in this 4th one I'm playing she's absolutely broke and a non-threat).

I recently started a multiplayer game as Austria and Florence was my second city...

Budapest is likely to be my fourth.

I think diplomatic marriage (like all forms of genuine diplomacy in the game) should have a time limitation - 30 turns, maybe. That's still a pretty potent ability, since you'll be able to draw on the resources of a well-developed city for that length of time.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

I really like the Austrian UA. I usually play OCC, but with this I can simply stay with one city until the later game and then turboannex each and every CS.

Nevertheless, I think a linear cost increase for their UA would be in order. It would be nice if it would increase by +250 for each CS married.

 

[blackcatatonic]

With every CS she gobbles, she becomes more powerful and it becomes easier for her to gobble up even more. Which means the earlier you can stop her, the better.

If you know Austria's on the map reasonably early, you can take precautions, however. Anything to up CS influence, completing quests, getting a religion and spreading it to CSs. That, plus careful use of spies late-game, should help slow her down a bit. She seems to prioritise Mercantile CSs, if that helps.

 

[BigChiefLizzy]

I really like the Austrian UA. I usually play OCC, but with this I can simply stay with one city until the later game and then turboannex each and every CS.

Nevertheless, I think a linear cost increase for their UA would be in order. It would be nice if it would increase by +250 for each CS married.

I've only played Austria once, and bought a CS out very early on (iron, luxury and it was well placed). I was so sure that the cost for buying more out would be so high that I never bothered even checking, was low on cash. Until the industrial/modern age, had some cash spare and checked... then bought up 4 with oil/aluminium etc