How do you provoke a war?

[Coinich]

Greetings all,

I'm not sure I'm posting this in the right place, or if it has been addressed already, but here it goes.

I'm currently in a C3C game where there are a few minor cities on my continent that are owned by other civs. I was able, thus far, to live with them and get the occasional culture flip (playing as Egyptians). However, the Spanish now have a city (level 4) on my continent that has access (although they don't know it yet) to one of only 2 rubber sources on the entire planet (standard random map). My main adversary - the Iriqouois - alreay have access to the rubber within their territory.

Therefore, as you can guess by the thread topic, being in a republic, I desire to goad the Spanish in to declaring war on me, to ease the WW going into battle. I don't intend to prosecute a campaign to their homeland - just to claim the rubber.

Is it possible to, as I say, "goad" the Spanish in to declaring war against me so that I may respond - in my righteous indignation - and capture the city and claim the rubber which belongs, by divine providence, to the Egyptian peoples?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[JoeCivFan]

If you have the right technology and enough gold, you can usualy use espionage, and eventually, your spy will get caught. If you sabatouge production, i have found that your spy seems to get caught easier.

Another way is to fortify units in enemy territory and not move them. When they tell you that you have to move them, then you say no, and they declare war on you.

The final way, that i can think of, is to just be plain mean to them. Like trade embargos and such. You can also threaten them to give you something (it works when you are a lot stronger)

 

[dgfred]

Jam a couple of cities up against an AI civ on monarch or higher and you

will usually get a war pretty quick . The AIs hate it!

 

[davidcrazy]

Another way is to fortify units in enemy territory and not move them. When they tell you that you have to move them, then you say no, and they declare war on you.

if u say no, u r the one who declare war, not the AI.

 

[davidcrazy]

However, the Spanish now have a city (level 4) on my continent that has access (although they don't know it yet) to one of only 2 rubber sources on the entire planet (standard random map).

AI knows it's there and that's why they go all the way acroos the ocean to claim it.


there isn't a thing that you can do to gurantee that the AI will declare on you i guess... it'll be an exploit. this being said, u could leave a city undefended, asking for gold every turn, etc to increase their possibility of declaring war.

 

[Coinich]

Duh! Thanks Joe. Didn't even consider espionage.

The Spanish declaration of war against me from espionage WON'T effect my WW - because they declared war on me... right

I've been "talking" to Isabella every turn for the last few turns - demanding the city be turned over to me "accept this trade or suffer the consequences" or something like that, in the hopes that she will declare war against me.

I'll try the espionage route tonight and see what that lands me. If I take the two Spanish cities on my continent - I hope she will see fit to talk peace with me early - just cause I'm doing well right now and don't want the WW for more than a few turns.

dgfred - thanks for that as well - too late on that front - but I'll use that in a future game.

Any other feedback out there?
Thanks.

 

[thestonesfan]

She won't declare war on you if you are a great deal stronger than she is.

You could see if they are currently at war with anyone, and sign a MPP with the opposing civ.

Or, and this is probably the easiest, just declare war. Spend a few turns skirmishing, and then when the War Weariness kicks in(you have a while), take the Spanish city. After that, they should want to make peace. Just don't start the war by taking the city.

 

[Coinich]

Stonesfan - sounds like you might be right.

When I get home, I'll have to study the situation for a bit , and then just do it and get it over with eh?

Thanks to all for the prompt replies. Much appreciated.

 

[huh?]

Once you control the cities on your continent, offer the non-rubber ones back to her for peace.

 

[Coinich]

Good point - to help make nice with her again eh! Although I don't suspect I'll give any of them back. Since she did settle on the sovereign continent of Egypt.

 

[miller4242]

I agree with the post above... just go in and ....

if you prepare enough overwhelming force prior to starting the war, you should be able to conquer the cities in 2-3 turns and WW will be very minimal....

good luck with your "divine" quest for your strategic resource...

 

[Sims2789]

Upload the savegame, as I want to see if I can do it. I would advise you to wait untill Spanish troops cross into your territory, then, if you have bad relations with the Spanish, try to kick them out. Hopefully they'll deckare war on you. If not, just attack them and quickly sign a peace treaty. Although you're in a Republic, it is better that you have the rubber and go to war than visa versa. The people won't get sick of war right away: you'll need to engage in a long war for them to do that. Plus, rubber is a very important resource.

 

[Sims2789]

Once you control the cities on your continent, offer the non-rubber ones back to her for peace.

No[in a good-natured tone]! Kick Spain's but hard enough and unify your country. Plus, the AI are virtually NEVER willing to trade cities in a peace treaty. What you could do is quickly take over a city on the Spanish mainland quickly after you take her city on your continent? "But by the time my transports get there, my people will riot" you say. What you do then is send the transports with units in them before you declare war on Spain. Have them waiting just off her coast and when the time come, land next to one of her cities (hopefully one with a luxury) and take it a few turns (3-6) after you take her city on your continent. This is because the AI are reluctant to sign a peace treaty the turn after war is declared. If the Spanish Navy is a problem, then go in three turns (2 if absolutely necesarry, like if all of your escorts are sunk), otherwise, go as close to 6 as possible. Try to sign the peace treaty the turn of or the turn after you take her mainland city. The best type of city to take is one with coatal hills, coastal jungles, coastal forests or coastal mountians directly next to the square where the city is you are trying to take. Land your troops on these types of terrain and they'll defenc better, as the Spanish will almost certainly attack your landing party before it attacks the city, especially if they have good railroads. Remember to bring good defensive units!

 

[Coinich]

I'll try and remember to upload the save game.

As for taking the Spanish holdings on my continent...this is little or no problem.

I actually don't have a navy - have traded for world maps vice exploration. Planning on developing a navy shortly, but have been concentrating on perfecting my infrastructure, as well as solidify my holdings in the southern portion of the continent.

I tend to play peaceful builder games, (Yes yes, I know - you can hear the song "All we are saying... is give peace a chance" playing in the background.) so I don't suspect that I will be able to attack their mainland in the near future... at least the near-enough future that I want that rubber in.

Do you think the Spanish will be ready for peace after about 5 turns and taking all three of their cities on my continent?

 

[dgfred]

I'll try and remember to upload the save game.

As for taking the Spanish holdings on my continent...this is little or no problem.

I actually don't have a navy - have traded for world maps vice exploration. Planning on developing a navy shortly, but have been concentrating on perfecting my infrastructure, as well as solidify my holdings in the southern portion of the continent.

I tend to play peaceful builder games, (Yes yes, I know - you can hear the song "All we are saying... is give peace a chance" playing in the background.) so I don't suspect that I will be able to attack their mainland in the near future... at least the near-enough future that I want that rubber in.

Do you think the Spanish will be ready for peace after about 5 turns and taking all three of their cities on my continent?

Usually the AI will make peace after losing 1 or 2 cities or about at least a
4 to 1 ratio of losses in your favor . You can always try for peace, if the
terms are not satifactory to you then just 'em a few more turns.

 

[BCLG100]

ask them for everyone of their cities a few times this should get them furious, then cancel an RoP and with their untis left in your territory ask them to get out or declare war, they will not move and declare war on you.

 

[JoeCivFan]

They will proabably be furious with you. Therefore they will refuse to acknowledge your envoy for a good few turns. Just build up mass amounts then get her to declare war. Thats when you go in and take the cities. Be prepared for her to send reinforcements though also, depening on how far her mainland is from yours.

 

[IbnSina]

"About 5 turns" is right. It may be a few more. But by all means, make sure your troops are outside Spain's borders, declare war, take her three cities (in one turn, if possible), and then just wait until she'll negotiate. Once Isabella's people are kicked off your continent, she will have a very hard time doing anything to hurt you very much, whereas if you let her cities hang around a few turns, she'll reinforce, counterattack, etc. etc. Put her out of her misery quickly. You should be able easily to get out of the war before any WW sets in.

There is one thing to worry about a little: if Isabella is moderately rich, she might very well buy off another AI to go to war with you as her ally. If this seems like a problem, you can preempt her. Buy any AI that has a border with you to fight Spain. You take her cities on your continent, and then let your ally do the rest. You then have to be at war for 20 turns, but you won't be taking significant losses, so your people will be content. You can do quite a lot of fighting in Republic without significant WW, just so long as you don't take large losses. Your people don't mind fighting - it's losing they hate!

 

[Coinich]

Spain is one of the weaker powers in the game. The game is clearly mine at this point (pending nothing going very wrong) since I had large gains early in the game.

My two primary threats are the Iriqouois and the Koreans (same tech level, less land for both, militarily I have slight superiority edge. I know I have more modern units than they do, but slightly less quantity than they do). I know that I keep the Koreans and Iriqouois broke with resource/lux trading.

Spain and the Dutch are next in line. Lesser world powers. With Portugal finishing the game as THE premier 3rd world country :thumbdown: (only 2 cities that I know of).

I am about 6 cities away from owning the entire, largest, continent on the planet, which bodes well for me. I agree with taking the cities hard and fast - limiting the chances for early reinforcement. I'll then wait my turn for envoy acknowledgement and hope that WW is not too much of a factor.

Thanks to all for the advice. I'll let you know what happens. Can someone verify for me that a failed spy attempt can cause them to declare war on me - thus reducing my WW potential and allowing me to be the "victim" .

 

[IbnSina]

A failed spy attempt frequently does provoke a war, but I wouldn't use that as a ploy. I think the AI attitude toward you will still harden if they learn that you've been trying to plant spies. Besides - you might succeed! In any case, it's an expensive way to start a war.