[BTS] how do you remedy the risk of revolution...

[Tobiyogi]

... in conquered cities? I figured out that producing culture/ building culture buildings doesn't really help. I recently had an influential city with more than 100 C/ turn that revolted once again after more than 30 turns from conquest. If I place strong military units (I think the base strength is decisive), I can reduce the risk, but do I want to leave my best units behind or produce expansive units only for garison?
How do you solve those problems and how big is the risk to lose the city forever? How many revolts will it take?

 

[krikav]

Some usefull stuff here it seems:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/suppressing-city-revolt.481880/

"warrior, quecha: 3
archer, skirmisher, axe, spear, phalanx, chariot, immortal, catapult: 4
swordsman, jaguar, praetorian, horsearcher, keshik, war elephant: 5
mace, samurai, pike, longbow, crossbow, chokonu, knight, camelarcher, conquistador: 6
musketman, musketeer, grenadier, cannon: 7
rifle, redcoat, calvalry, cossack: 8
machine gun: 9
infantry, SAM infantry, gunship, artillery: 10
marine, SEAL, tank, panzer: 12
mech infantry, modern armor: 16
Note that ships, planes, workers, great people, and other non-military or non-land units don't help keep a city under control."

I usually just crowd the stack inside such a city and move out units untill I see that there is a % chance for revolt.
The only really usefull solution is to conquer the cities pushing culture against the city you want to avoid revolt in.

 

[Tobiyogi]

probably the best solution after all. but I am part-time pacificist and always try to end a war asap

 

[Tobiyogi]

I often move out when the risk is lower than 3%. After all, I have the feeling that the revolt probabilty is NOT accumulated because I have seen cities with a risk of maybe 2% for long time without ever revolting, but still, 5% means that you will have a revolt very soon. (imagine a 20-sided dice, how big is the chance to guess the right number?). On the other hand, Civ IV always picks out the right number, the game is nothing for justice seekers.... *lol*

 

[krikav]

Randomness is random.
I had a city that was building my last spacepart revolt for me, and the turn it was out of revolt it revolted again at <5% odds in this game:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/immortal-university-xviii.319650/page-5

 

[AcaMetis]

One way to reduce revolt chances in a city is by spreading your religion to it, assuming you're running a religion. Religion can also increase revolt chances, but I'm not sure if that depends on the state religion of the civ that you took the city from or the civ who's culture is threatening to flip the city, assuming those are two different civs of course.

 

[lymond]

City won't have revolt risk after it hits 50% of your own culture. Unfortunately that can often take a long time, especially if the city is starting from scratch on culture.

In my experience, even at around 1% risk, there is still a very good chance of revolt on any turn. (You really don't want any revolt risk at all in cities that you want to keep..once they come out of initial revolt)

You are correct that more advanced units have a greater impact of decreasing the risk, or you can just stack more older units as you can.

Pressure also seems ..obviously...relative to the cultural strength of the nearby enemy cities. I found nowadays that I tend to just take these cities, even if ultimately vassaling the enemy, or just eliminating the enemy altogether if my priority is conquest and I don't want to waste time placing stacks of good units in a city to eliminate revolt risk.

The key here is the cities that you DO want to keep because of their wonders and the fact the city is just great in terms of land and population - you can whip it down later for more units. Say you plan to vassal the enemy. Capture a couple of the problematic neighboring cities, vassal the civ, and keep the cities for a while as the city(ies) you want to keep are not threatened by that vassal culture for some time, allowing it to gain culture a bit quicker without risk of revolt. Let the other cities revolt or whatever for a while (it often will take several turns for the cities to come out of the initial capture revolt anyway). When those other cities eventually come out of initial revolt, whip them down for more units. Eventually gift them back to your vassal. In the meantime, the cities you want to keep have likely produce a good amount of culture to be safe.

So, in other words, it is the % of your own culture that matters, not the culture per turn (although that will help some with increasing %). Culture % grows slowly, but it grows faster when not pressured by other culture. If city is being heavily pressured, even with several points of culture per turn in the city, it may barely even grow at 1% per turn. The idea here is to temporarily reduce or eliminate any culture pressure on the cities that you do want to keep.

The only other solution outside of that other than MPing the crapola out of the city is to take everything, i.e., eliminate that culture completely. Or vassal the guy and gift the cities back.

Lastly, as an addendum, I've found that limiting population growth can help revolt risk from appearing ...you know, sometimes you don't see it at first but then it pops up later. Reducing pop does not, although you will likely want to whip stuff in captured cities anyway. But otherwise, don't let these cities grow for a while until safe from revolt. (I'm not absolutely sure on this mechanic but it is something I've played around with for a long time with some success) It is something I'd be interested in seeing if there is any code that supports it. Regardless, I think revolt risk may be a result of multiple factors.

 

[Tobiyogi]

good explanation @lymond

in the game i am currently running i was wondering why the culture in the captured cities grows so slowly even though i built Library, temple, mandir and was running artists. it was obviously the culture pressure from mansa who stopped the captured Timbuktu to culturally grow (in Kumbi Salah he kept building wonders). the only solution was to stack military inside because he was already my vassal.

good idea to capture "useless" cities, to whip them down, to use them as a cultural "buffer" for the more valuable cities and to give them back only much later. in my case, the Mali were to small for such an approach.

 

[Tobiyogi]

good explanation @lymond

in the game i am currently running i was wondering why the culture in the captured cities grows so slowly even though i built Library, temple, mandir and was running artists. it was obviously the culture pressure from mansa who stopped the captured Timbuktu to culturally grow (in Kumbi Salah he kept building wonders). the only solution was to stack military inside because he was already my vassal.

good idea to capture "useless" cities, to whip them down, to use them for a while as a cultural "buffer" for the more valuable cities and to give them back only later. in my case, the Mali were to small for such an approach.

as for the 1% risk, I am relatively safe (playing most of the time on IMM). Maybe "deity" bothers you even on 1%. I feel that anything >2,5% makes a revolt relatively sure sooner or later.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Maybe the other problem in my game was that i did NOT whip Timbuktu down because it had very good tiles to work and my happy cap was extremly high. So the "we want to join our motherland" penalty didn't even produce unhappy faces.
After all, it seems to me that revolts are much more likely in bigger cities even when there are enough happiness resources for the moment. Is that true?

 

[AcaMetis]

Tried to quickly test it through WB and I'm getting some weird results. I've got a size 2 city with a <1% revolt chance. WB the pop to 1, nothing else, no change to the revolt chance. WB the pop to 5, no change. WB the pop to 20 (way beyond what the city could support), just increasing the pop, revolt chance increases to >5%. So clearly one of Starvation/Unhappiness/Unhealth/City size/maintenance increased revolt chance, since nothing else changed. WB the pop back down to 5, the max the city could support without any of the above factors to try and narrow it down...Revolt chance is still >5%. What? WB the pop back down to 2, the amount it started with, still >5%. Saved the game, loaded it, revolt chance is still >5%. It updated from <1% to >5% just fine, so why isn't it changing back? It fixes itself after letting a turn pass, but still. Weird.

Anyway, a quick reload of the original save later and back to testing. That city could get up to pop 8 without the revolt chance changing, but at pop 9 (no or , for reference) it jumped to above 1%. So yes, it does seem that larger cities do increase the revolt chance, though I'm not sure by how much.

 

[Tobiyogi]

not sure if the game can accuratly process modifications quickly made in the WB... it seems that bigger cities are more at risk, but the main key is probably how much culture is produced in the surrounding foreign cities (if they have wonders, radio towers etc...)

 

[lymond]

Yeah..not sure WB truly can replicate this stuff. What I've found is that once revolt risk is present the % of risk is the same regardless of size of city.. Only thing that changes that is # of MP. External pressure relates to the amount of the revolt risk or likelihood risk happening in the first place, but once risk is established in a city it stays at X% , with that % being a result of probably several factors, but unchanging unless MP is present. In other words, whipping down the city is not going to change the risk odds.

I've found it odd though that sometimes I capture a city and there is no risk at all even though I expect there would be. In many cases you may start with no risk, even with...say..one measly unit in city, but then risk pops up later, likely due to border pops in other enemy or vassal cities, especially when their cap has moved nearby. Anyway, this is where I've sort of learned to manage the likelihood of risk appearing or at least delaying it enough to stabilize it by limiting growth. It's often easy to determine, if no risk exist at capture, that the city will likely face revolt risk in the future. Sometimes risk is so low that a few old units will pacify it.

If risk is present at capture, especially if quite high (seems it is capped at like 9.9%) then there is not much one can do other than either MPing to eliminate, gifting back to vassal, or capturing adjacent cities. If my war machine is moving unhindered then I'm likely to do the latter.