How do you stop your catapults from defending

[TheBigBabyP]

I was having a very good game recently playing as Brennus\marathon\large\Noble.3.13 with unofficial patch

I was preparing to Invade america. I built a force of 12 celtic UU swordsman,4 Axeman,2 spear,7 catapult, and 3 archer. My Idea being that I would be able to rather quickly attack Washington and boston then sue for peace and reup on soldiers.

So I move my units into his territory after DOW. I was on a hill outside of his city when washington moves a good size stack of axe and spear into the city. But instead of fortifying he attacks my stack. which would have been fine except that everytime an axeman attacked my stack a catapult would defend. so after his attacks were done I was left with 2 catapults screwing over my whole plan.

I realize that the axe would get no bonus against catapults but I had axe on a hill as well as guerilla promoted celtic swordsman and guerilla archers that could have defended. I would have lost some but I can lose a few of them no problem, but only two catapults to take a capital.

So my question is is there anyway to prioritize so that seige engines are the last to defend. If not how do tohers get around this problem. I had at least one of every type of unit I could build at this stage in the stack and still cats defend first.

 

[Blaarg]

If your archers were guerilla promoted, they probably would have defended first, aside from that, you should have waited for longbows, which couldn't have been far off.

 

[TheBigBabyP]

I don't usually go for feudalism until much later I was decently close to machine=Crossbows. But still you should not have to postpone attacks 30 turns while you wait for the next tech. It should really be included in a patch where seige is always last to defend. No one is ever going to send their artillery to the front line especially with plenty of expendable units.

Ideally I would love an option to pick which units defend (I dont care that it would be slow)for both survival and EXP reasons. But I realize that this is unrealistic, so I would settle for a catapults defend last. If anyone knows of a mod or how to change this I would love to know.

 

[Blaarg]

I don't usually go for feudalism until much later I was decently close to machine=Crossbows. But still you should not have to postpone attacks 30 turns while you wait for the next tech. It should really be included in a patch where seige is always last to defend. No one is ever going to send their artillery to the front line especially with plenty of expendable units.

Ideally I would love an option to pick which units defend (I dont care that it would be slow)for both survival and EXP reasons. But I realize that this is unrealistic, so I would settle for a catapults defend last. If anyone knows of a mod or how to change this I would love to know.

Well, that's not how the game is made. Your best defender defends first, too bad. Deal with it.

 

[ezwip]

Stick the spearmen with the catapults and put the axes,swords, archers a tile ahead. This should keep their stack from attacking them, and if they send horses the spearmen will make short work of them. You will be a turn behind when you reach their city and still have to wait on your catapults to pull up, but they should be in one piece. This will give your axemen another turn to heal after receiving the brunt of fighting.

 

[weasel77066]

Your best defender defends--- depending on which unit is attacking. If he attacked with a horse, your spear will probably defend, if attacking sword then your first auto pick will probably be an axe.... and so on.

I usually do a bit of looking to see what he has to counter with... (counter attack) and I mix a variety of relevant troops for my SOD so that my prime city assault troops can go to the site unscathed.

Waiting may not do good for you. A certain unit may not be good. It depends on what he has and what you are able to choose as a counter to protect your objective.

 

[ezwip]

He needs to "escort" those catapults.

 

[alvan]

Promote ur own axemen with combat+shock, or atleast some of them to act as stack defenders along with spearmen (who also is combat+shock).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah.. the only way a Catapult would be the best defender is if a Shock Axe attacked (because an Axe or a spear should be the best against anything else)

One way to make sure cats aren't selected is stick to defensive terrain, it gives Non-cat/horse units a boost in their defense.

oh saw the OP... strange the Cats Shouldn't have defended... All those units on a hill should be better v. Axes than cats (plain axes on a hill might be even with cats when attacked by shock axes though)

 

[Peepers]

I built a force of 12 celtic UU swordsman,4 Axeman,2 spear,7 catapult, and 3 archer.

On a bare hill your units got

Melee: Celtic sword (min GuerillaI) = 1.45 def x 6 str x 2/3 vs axe = 5.8
Melee: Axemen = 1.25 def x 5 x 2/3 vs axe x 3/2 against axe = 6.25
Melee: Spear = 1.25 def x 4 str x 2/3 vs axe = 3.3333
Archery: Archer (bonus for hill) = 1.5 def x 3 str = 4.5
Siege: Catapult = 5

So vs unpromoted enemy axes, your axes should defend

If the enemy axes have combatI and shock, though, the melee units get a futher mult of 9/10 x 3/4 = 27/40 which would put the Gallics at 5.8 x 27/40= 3.915, and the axes would be 6.25 x 27/40= 4.219.

So, vs those enemy promos, the cats would be strongest defender.

Pls add corrections if necessary, but that's my best explanation.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

V. Shock Axe.. bonuses ad rather than multiply

G II Celt= +75 (hill) -75 (melee)=+0%=6
G2 Archer=+75 (hill)+25 (archer hill)=+100%=3*2=6
Guerilla I Archer= +25 (hill) +20 (G1 hill) +25(archer hill)=+70%=3*1.7=5.1
Axe =+25 (hill) +50 (Melee) -75 Melee = +0% = 5
Cat=5
Celtic Sword = +45 (hill)-75(melee)= -30% = 6/1.3=~4.6
Spear=+25 (hill) -75(melee)=-50% =4/1.5=~2.5

If he actually had guerilla archers or Guerilla 2 units they should have defended instead of the cats [of course maybe the guerilla archers/Guerilla 2 units got damaged, and the cats took the rest]

One possibility is that the Catapults had the combat promotions? that would move them up.

 

[Dominico]

It can happen sometimes but you just have to try to make a stack with a couple or more defenders. Otherwise as stated your cats will defend. Its happened to me a few times but thats the system. The strongest will defend. I have had it so the ai attacks with a few units, damages teh main defenders in the stack and then still gets the artillery :/ i find it fun though.

Lately i have started splitting the stacks into 2 as this seems to work better. Especially when the AI has catapults, i have lost so many stacks when i was invading due to arty attack folllowed up by other units!! lol

 

[JKWSN]

One more fun fact:

I did a bit of World Builder testing on an earlier theory in 3.03, that if two units have an equal chance to win when defending, the unit with more promotions will defend (I tested with artillery vs two tanks one with no promotions and one with the GG promo). Murphy's Law prevails - the equally well suited non-promo unit never defended.

Does anyone know how the x% less collateral damage from Drill works in stack precedence as opposed to just having the first strikes? And is it less damage for the one unit or all units in the stack when the drill unit defends?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

^ It really should be the unit with less promos (it is more disposable AND if it survives, the experience will more easily help it reach a new promo)

 

[Infantry#14]

^ It really should be the unit with less promos (it is more disposable AND if it survives, the experience will more easily help it reach a new promo)

I agree with you. I remembered this was implemented in civ 3. A full health regular spearman (3 health bars) would defend first, then the injured veteran spearman (also 3 health bars left).