How Does “Flanking” Works?

[MosheLevi]

Do we need to literally flank enemy units with cavalry to achieve the flanking damage bonus?

I had many cases that I attacked enemy stacks with my cavalry and didn’t inflict any flanking damage on their siege weapons.

Does anyone have some stats for minimum/maximum flanking damage and how many units can be affected?

What is the most effective flanking maneuver?

 

[MadmanAtW]

Your flanking unit has to survive the fight. If it wins or withdraws it will deal flanking damage to the siege engines.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I think I recall that the amount of flanking damage done is exactly the same as the amount of damage you'd deal per hit to the defender you're attacking. For example, if you'd cause 23HP damager per hit to the unit, then if your cavalry or whatever survives, then the units that cop the flanking damage will all receive 23HP of damage. It's almost like collateral damage but your attacking unit has to survive.

I think it was in the latest patch they introduced a limit on how many units you could flank at a time. Previously you could just use a few knights to wipe out a huge stack of catapults. The cap is now about 5 I think but is a little higher for later mounted units... maybe up to 7 or 8 by cavalry.. I forget.

 

[MosheLevi]

So cavalry damage siege units every time it attacks a stack and survives (without having to perform a special maneuver)?

 

[Elkad]

So cavalry damage siege units every time it attacks a stack and survives (without having to perform a special maneuver)?

Except if the siege is in a city (or fort). Which I forget about all the time.

 

[DMOC]

This thread might be of some help: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7769112

 

[Earthling]

I think everyone has explained it very well. That said, if anyone is interested in a little discussion of opinions, I personally hate flanking as it is now. It only exists to counter uber-siege, and siege shouldn't be that powerful in the first place.

One idea I've kinda developed, and also seen work excellently in the mod Fall from Heaven, is the ability for a unit to attack the weakest unit in a stack. I think that instead of flanking, horse units should be given this ability - out in the open, with no countering unit, a horse unit attacks the weakest unit in the stack (reasonably realistic with real life flanking too.) So then what you could do is give units like spearmen, pikemen, other horses, and any unit with the anti-mounted promotion, the ability to defend the stack (say once per turn, formation spears/pikes twice). Right now mounted (before cavalry) is already quite weak both due to cost, and being very easy to counter - chariots are supposed to counter axes, for instance, but just adding in 2-3 spears can reasonably defend against almost a dozen chariots. I really like the idea of enough mounted units overrunning stacks in the field - and this even fits with the current Flanking Promotion (because if your first attackers retreat against the spears, and the next ones get their shots at the weakest unit in the stack... ) In fact, I just realized Ballista Elephants do this anyway too, but I think the idea could be expanded in general (and that UU would still have benefits if it bypassed everything altogether).

 

[PieceOfMind]

This thread might be of some help: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7769112

Particularly post #14 by DanF5771.

 

[bobbyboy29]

OK so I've got a related combat on the topic, If you give a cavalry unit the ability charge (+25% damage to siege weapons) will it now cause more flanking damage per siege unit even if it attacks a non siege unit?

 

[PieceOfMind]

OK so I've got a related combat on the topic, If you give a cavalry unit the ability charge (+25% damage to siege weapons) will it now cause more flanking damage per siege unit even if it attacks a non siege unit?

The damage caused to flanked units is equal to the damage you'd deal per hit to the actual defender. Therefore for the anti-siege promotion, if you attack a non-siege unit it will not make any difference to how much the flanked units get damaged. If however you attack a siege unit it could affect the flanking damage - it depends how much damage you deal per hit.

To find the damage per hit is not very easy to calculate (well, it is easy but tedious and not very obvious).

 

[Skallagrimson]

I've learned to keep cavalry builds going even after I build tanks, and only stop when the AIs are always bringing artillery (then switch to marines).

 

[JonathanStrange]

I think everyone has explained it very well. That said, if anyone is interested in a little discussion of opinions, I personally hate flanking as it is now. It only exists to counter uber-siege, and siege shouldn't be that powerful in the first place.

...good stuff...

I like the mods' handling of flanking too, but I admit: I love this even more. It does seem too powerful when it works though...

 

[MosheLevi]

Yes, flanking seems to be a bit too powerful from what I read here.
I guess that is the best way to counter a big stack of siege weapons that could have been OP if flanking didn’t exist.

So basically defenders need lots of cavalry units and attackers need many siege weapons accompanied with units that counter cavalry.

It also seems to me that whoever attacks first (assuming both sides have a large stack) has the advantage because that is the only way players can inflict damage on multiple units in one turn.

I would like to go off topic and ask about “Tile Attack Movement”.
I noticed that with a railroad defenders (and in some cases attackers too) can attack from a distance (tile movement for attack can be 4 or 5 tiles).

What are the rules regarding tile movement for attack with a railroad?

 

[PieceOfMind]

It sounds like you are guessing that attacker's might attack at a reduced strength after they have used some movement points. This no longer exists in Civ4 - if a unit has any movement points left at all it attacks at its full strength (or reduced strength if it is damaged).

Other than the quicker movement, there is no way railroads affect combat so I'm a bit unsure what you are asking about attack with a railroad. Or is this a mod you're talking about?