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How does Game Speed affect Balance

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by GrumboMumbo, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. GrumboMumbo

    GrumboMumbo Warlord

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    So Firaxis has balanced this game around Standard speed, but which is your preferred speed to play at, and how does the game speed affect the overall balance of the game?

    I often play with a mix of human and AI opponents (mostly 2-3 of us with 3-4 AI to fill a 6 player game), and I want to find the best game speed to strike a good balance. With Civ6 being heavily favoured towards rapid expansion, would online speed make ICS harder to achieve as settler units take longer to move into position, delaying an expansive empire, while also nerfing warmongering.

    So would Online speed strike a better balance considering ICS and warmongering being oppressively the 'optimal' strategy in civ6?
     
  2. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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  3. GrumboMumbo

    GrumboMumbo Warlord

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    Ok, sorry didn't realise it had been discussed so much already, thanks for the links
     
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  4. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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    You are very welcome, and I'm glad you didn't think I was trying to be rude (I wasn't); just pointing out that reading through those would give you more answers (sooner) than waiting for people to respond to this thread.
     
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  5. GunsGermsandSteel

    GunsGermsandSteel Warlord

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    I looked at some of those since I change speeds around. For some reason Epic seems to work best for me. I can't quite put my finger on it. Right now I'm playing a marathon game with Sumeria and I swear I've done better in epic before. While my units stay relevant longer I feel like there are just more enemies to fight both civs and barbarians. I know it's all scaled and it's just a feeling.

    I don't think I've played anything at less than standard speed. Unless it was just to try it out, and I obviously didn't like it.
    Standard - Unit upgrades are lose relevancy too fast. If I plan to play pacificst/super limited aggression I go standard though just for a quicker game.
    Epic - This is the sweet spot for me. Units stay relevant for a good while. And the game speed just 'feels' right.
    Marathon - I seem to fight more units in general. Haven't played a ton of marathon games but this is the sense I get every time I try it. Theoretically units should stay relevant the longest and as such this should be the ideal domination speed. I also feel daunted by how long of production/expensive everything is.

    One other thing to note is that while civilian units are less affected by game speed, slower speeds do benefit them.
     
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  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Same. Anything faster than Epic feels off kilter to me, and Marathon is too slow. (I used to want a speed in between Epic and Marathon, but GS's Future Era no longer makes me wish for a slower game...That wasn't a compliment, Firaxis.)
     
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  7. Deadly Dog

    Deadly Dog Warlord

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    I blame my committment to epic speed for giving me an unwieldy list of savegames from the classical-renaissance eras. I'm more likely to go with standard speed on a small map, but mostly I play standard or large maps at epic pacing.

    The problem is also I can't be bothered with Emperor level anymore, as if its a nice map I've beaten the AI by the medieval and if its a boring map its a boring game (for me). So going Immortal/Deity all the time on epic speed means many MANY failures to barbs or AI (I can beat them back but then I'm so far behind in other areas...) but every once in a while a nice map rolls up with everything aligned for a good start and then I can work to beat the AI while playing to a civ's traits. I'm too lazy or sloppy really for deity play in the ancient era....I'll forget to send a delegation and really can't be bothered to sell DF and resources, but I am pretty good at holding off a barbarian raiding party with a warrior and a scout :lol:

    The endgame is slow its true but I'd say only 10% of my games make it to the end. I get bored with a map or a civ easily, and I'm constantly deleting games I've forgotten about.

    So I've never played US Canada or Germany their UU's come way too late. And part of playing epic speed is so that I can enjoy lengthy campaigns with a UU. :lol:
     
  8. xxhe

    xxhe Prince

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    Epic works the best for me.

    For game difficulty, the faster the game is, the more difficult it is.
     
  9. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    The game is more balanced on online speed, especially for AI combat and world era.
     
  10. tiamats4esgares

    tiamats4esgares Warlord

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    I usually play on Standard speed, but individual military units are more important and more impactful on slower difficulties. So if it's domination you want, slow it down. If not, speed it up.
     
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  11. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    The game is *most balanced* on standard speeds, by design. Era length (impact on age benefits), research costs for civics/techs, gold costs etc are all of a reasonable amount such that decisions you make are impactful while at the same time not as punishing for mistakes.

    As game speed increases, movements are more impactful.. finding a hut or a wonder a couple turns earlier likely can make the difference between a different era score. Walking into a dead-end is more punishing, as every 'wasted' movement represents a greater amount of 'time' (percentage of game turns). Meanwhile, other 'mistakes' are more easily corrected... a dead unit can be replaced faster, a tech researched faster, etc.

    As game speed slows down, combat mistakes (namely deas units) become more punishing. It takes comparatively *forever* to replace a dead unit. Exploration less so. Meanwhile, long term decisions are more impactful... what you build, research, etc are around for longer. Your era bonuses last longer. Goodie hut bonuses have greater swings in value... gold might be worthless compared to, say, a free scout or builder or even a population point.

    Also, balance between civs becomes more skewed as game speed gets away from Standard. A civ that is designed to come 'online at a later era does better at a faster speed. A civ that is online in the ancient or classical is better on a slower speed.q
     
  12. walkerjks

    walkerjks Prince

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    Eleanors' ability goes a little nuts on marathon speed as loyalty pressure doesn't scale with speed.
     
  13. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    What?Are you kidding? I see 0.00% probability for a standard speed game to go into Modern or later era, unless you're pursuing for a score or diplomatic victory.(and for diplomatic victories the game ends on the 1st turn of modern era.) Even if you ban trading, chopping, harvesting, pillaging, etc. and only use hard build you'll finish an SV or CV in Industrial Era, no way to pass it to Modern or later era.

    And you are calling this "most balanced", oh!
     
  14. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    Yes, I call it most balanced, because for 99.9% of the playerbase it is true.

    *YOU* will finish in the Industrial. Not the case for everyone else for whom the game is designed and balanced. Standard speed is, literally, the most balanced by intended design.
     
  15. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    This is false. Barbs are far too easy on online speed. They cannot spawn more than 1 a turn. Research and civics are also easier to get down to 1 turn.

    Standard is the most balanced.

    I have to agree with lily about era balance, though. It is messed up in all speeds.
     
  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Slower speeds are considered easier vs AI, because it emphasizes combat more, and thus gives them more opportunities to screw up and for you to outplay them. This has been the case for many versions of Civ.

    But that is only in the context of the dumb AI.

    I pick Normal Speed because some aspects do not scale with speed effectively (Era score , barbs, etc) Also, do peace treaties and deals scale with speed? I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  17. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Levying also scales with speed, poorly.
     
  18. GrumboMumbo

    GrumboMumbo Warlord

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    I've read most of the comments in all the threads, and for obvious reasons standard is certainly most popular, but I think the best balance for me is going to be playing on Quick speed. War and expansion is way too easy and the AI/exploits of civ6 are far too exploitable on Standard+ speeds that it makes the eras go too quickly towards the mid/late game. Chopping is far too powerful on Standard speed for my liking as well. I think Online is just a bit too fast, so Quick it is for me.
     
  19. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

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    I play online speed almost exclusively and I quite like the balance of it because it makes war more difficult.
     

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