How does Great Bazzar work?

[myclan]

It seems that it will provide 1 extra amenity of luxury resources for EACH kind of luxury resoures which improved inside the city boundary. It means that if you have 3 spices, the Great Bazzar provides only 1, but if you have 1 spice and 1 citrus, it will provide 2.

But I really got confused about how it works about Strategy resources.

I got a city A with 1 Uranium mine, 1 Niter mine and 1 Coal mine. No other Uranium in other cities. I got +6 Uranium per turn, so I assumed the Great Bazzar provides 3 extra Uranium for city A have 3 kinds of Strategy resources being improved.

In another city B, there was 1 Iron mine and 1 Coal mine. I got +4 Iron per turn, due to the assumption above.

But then I got a City C, there was 1 Horse pasture, and 1 Niter under an encampment. I got +8 Niter per turn. I think there is a +5 for City A, so it's a +3 for City C. Maybe only the Horse pasture is regarded as "improved Strategy resources", so only +1 for the Niter?

In fact City C also had a Offshore Oil Rig 4 tiles away from the city center, maybe it didn't count, too. But I assumed I will have +4 Oil per turn for the Horse Pasture. I had abundant oil inside my border so a bit difficult to confirm.

To sum up my assumption:
If X(2 or above) kinds of Strategy resources are improved with the corresponding improvement inside the city border of radius 3. Extra X strategy resources will be provided for each kind.
If a stratery resource is improved by a distric or beyond the city radius of 3, it will not count into X. But Extra X(1 or above) of this resource will still be provided.

I hope anyone can help to confirm my assumption. Maybe @Victoria know more about this?

 

[Sostratus]

I believe it's supposed to only provide 1 extra strategic resource. So a city with any number of irons mines, will result in +1 iron per turn.
Since the modifier involved is attached to the city having possession of the tile,not whether it is worked, it shouldn't matter if it's 3, 4, or even 5 tiles away as long as the city owns it.

Don't forget to make sure you are not using Corporate Libertarianism, the Automaton Warfare dedication, or any of the policy cards that boost strategic resource accumulation.

Maybe only the Horse pasture is regarded as "improved Strategy resources", so only +1 for the Niter?

We do not know exactly how the DLL does it, but there is a modifier in the game we do know about to check if a strategic resource is improved. This, i am like 99% sure, checks the resource table for what a given resource is listed as "improved by." Districts do not count for this AFAIK.

 

[myclan]

I believe it's supposed to only provide 1 extra strategic resource. So a city with any number of irons mines, will result in +1 iron per turn.
Since the modifier involved is attached to the city having possession of the tile,not whether it is worked, it shouldn't matter if it's 3, 4, or even 5 tiles away as long as the city owns it.

Don't forget to make sure you are not using Corporate Libertarianism, the Automaton Warfare dedication, or any of the policy cards that boost strategic resource accumulation.

Thanking you for replying. I'm sure that I had only 1 Iron Mine in the whole country while it gave +4 Iron per turn from improvement. And only 1 Uranium Mine in the whole country while it gave out +6 Uranium per turn from improvement. Without any policy or government which may affect.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Wow, this is interesting, it reminds me of how the extra Faith of Ethiopia works. Do you mind sending me the save file so I can investigate this with you?

 

[myclan]

Wow, this is interesting, it reminds me of how the extra Faith of Ethiopia works. Do you mind sending me the save file so I can investigate this with you?

Thanks, I will upload it later.

 

[Sostratus]

Wow, this is interesting, it reminds me of how the extra Faith of Ethiopia works. Do you mind sending me the save file so I can investigate this with you?

I checked the tables and I can confirm that the effect used for the grand bazaar’s modifier - the one used to grant extra strategics- is the only use of it in the game.
So it may well operate in an unintended/unknown way (I had expect one of the various other +extraction rate effects to be reused for this)

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I checked the tables and I can confirm that the effect used for the grand bazaar’s modifier - the one used to grant extra strategics- is the only use of it in the game.
So it may well operate in an unintended/unknown way (I had expect one of the various other +extraction rate effects to be reused for this)

I should have said that the Bazaar works in the opposite direction of Ethiopia. Ethiopia likes a lot of duplicate resources, the more duplicates they have, the more faith they will gain. Bazaar favors diversity, the more diverse, the faster your accumulation will be. I say it reminds me of each other because people tend to simplify their abilities by thinking that every resource receives +1 faith or every mine receives +1 resource per turn.

 

[Victoria]

Maybe @Victoria know more about this?

I’ll have a nose for you, happily
EDIT - OMG, Soo broken
It is Firetuner but I built the single city civ, left cheftain government and slotted no amenity/resource cards and no suzerain.
I took a stocktake of resources/luxes a few turns after building to make sure they were working then build the Grand Bazaar and next turn was surprised by the result.
p.s. I know honey is a lux but I do not like honey and we need to ensure unimproved luxes do not count but I am trying to farm some bees.

Spoiler :

What does this city have that counts?

2 spice plantations
1 furs camp
1 Diamond under holy site
1 Niter mine
2 horse pastures
2 oil rig platforms (one in 4th ring)
2 Honey unimproved

Before being Bazaar

6 oil per turn
3 Niter per turn
4 horses per turn
3 Amenities from luxuries

After becoming Grand

12 Oil per turn
6 Niter per turn
10 Horses per turn
6 Amenities from Luxuries

What seems broken?
I should not be getting 3 amenities from the Bazaar, I should be getting 2, so I removed one of the incense and it seems like the diamonds are counting as improved. I see no reason resources would be any different.
10 Horse per turn? So it seems like it is counting horses as 3 per turn rather than 2 for the Bazaar ones because if I remove 1 pasture, next turn I am getting 5 horses per turn.
Seems to be doubling resources quite happily regardless of number.

Nice to know 4th ring counts bizaarly

@myclan does this match your issue? I was struggling to grasp some of the things you said prcisely.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

If you put districts or city centers on top of strategic resources, the resources are automatically grabbed for you.

 

[myclan]

Trying to upload some pictures and my save file to explain my idea, but without any success due to bad network. So I decide to do it all by words.
In Victoria's case, the Great Bazzar will give 3 extra amenity with improved spice, furs and diamond. Though we may not build a district on a diamond directly in normal game, but it is considered as "improved" so we have 3 kinds of luxury resources.

For the strategic resources, the city has improved 2 horses, 1 niter, 2 oil, a total of 3 kinds. So 2 horse pastures provide (2+3)*2=10, 1 niter mine provide 2+3=5 (should not be 6 I think), and 2 oil platforms provide (3+3)*2=12.

If remove the oil 3 tiles away from city centers, or put it under a district instead of an improvement, the total kinds of improved strategic resources of this city will decrease to 2 kinds. Thus 8 horses, 4 niter, 5 or 10 oil AFAIK.

 

[Victoria]

niter mine provide 2+3=5 (should not be 6 I think

Without the bazaar the city was producing 3 niter, important to test such things.
While the horses were producing 2 before and 5 after.

Soto me luxuries is specified correctly but resources are not. It seems to provide 3 additional of each resource rather than each type.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I just tested using the file Victoria supplied. Here is how I think it works:

For every type of Strategic resources improved, each source of strategic resource accumulate 1 resource per turn faster. So when there are improved Horses, Oil and Niter, each improved resource will gain +3 per turn, when I remove all horses, niter and oil accumulate 1 slower than before (so niter will receive +2, and with the original +2 = +4, oil will also receive +2 on top of the original +3 = +5 each). When I remove the Niter, Oil accumulate 1 slower (so each Oil will only accumulate +4).

The luxury part seems to be working as intended as well, basically +1 Amenity to that city only for every improved lux in that city.

 

[Victoria]

each source of strategic resource accumulate 1 resource per turn faster.

5 stars, you got what I missed

 

[myclan]

I just tested using the file Victoria supplied. Here is how I think it works:

For every type of Strategic resources improved, each source of strategic resource accumulate 1 resource per turn faster. So when there are improved Horses, Oil and Niter, each improved resource will gain +3 per turn, when I remove all horses, niter and oil accumulate 1 slower than before (so niter will receive +2, and with the original +2 = +4, oil will also receive +2 on top of the original +3 = +5 each). When I remove the Niter, Oil accumulate 1 slower (so each Oil will only accumulate +4).

The luxury part seems to be working as intended as well, basically +1 Amenity to that city only for every improved lux in that city.

What I want to confirm is: Will it provide +4 if there is only 1 oil improved by oil well in a city with Great Bazzar?(No other strategic resources) What if the oil well is 4 tiles away from the city center? What if the oil is improved by a district instead of a improvement?

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

So basically, if you only have 1 type of strategic resources, every improvement of that type will get +1, so since oil has a base value of +3, yes, it will become +4 if you don't have any other types of resources. All in all, this building counts diversity, regardless of how many of copies you have of each type.

Regarding of resources under a district, even luxuries under a city center, they do count as if they are improved with their respective improvements.

Regarding sources outside the workable range, I have not tested but I have every reason to believe it still works like normal. Yields of tiles outside the workable range cannot be worked by the city, but normally, resources still accumulate from those tiles and amenities from luxes still count, so I don't think there is any reason why the Grand Bazaar doesn't work with those.

 

[myclan]

So basically, if you only have 1 type of strategic resources, every improvement of that type will get +1, so since oil has a base value of +3, yes, it will become +4 if you don't have any other types of resources. All in all, this building counts diversity, regardless of how many of copies you have of each type.

Regarding of resources under a district, even luxuries under a city center, they do count as if they are improved with their respective improvements.

Regarding sources outside the workable range, I have not tested but I have every reason to believe it still works like normal. Yields of tiles outside the workable range cannot be worked by the city, but normally, resources still accumulate from those tiles and amenities from luxes still count, so I don't think there is any reason why the Grand Bazaar doesn't work with those.

In my game I had 5 sources of oil. 2 of them are inside the city border without a Great Bazzar. 1 of them is 4 tiles away, in a city with 1 horse pasture and 1 niter under a distric. The remaining 2 are in the same city with 1 horse pasture, but 1 of them is 4 tiles away from the city center, and the other is under 1 distric. I got 18 oil totally, so I think the oil under a district or being 4 tiles away will only have a +1 because of the horse pasture, but not itself.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Again, you have to send me the save file so I can clearly investigate this, but according to your words, here is a few things:

Case 1: Let's suppose the one 4 tiles away works

1/ The 2 oil sources in the city without the GB: 3 per turn x2 = 6 per turn

2/ The oil source that is 4 tiles away in the city with horses and niter. Let's suppose this works as intended, this oil source will grant 5 oil per turn

3/ The 2 last oil sources in the city with horses. Since at 2/ (above) we suppose the oil source 4 tiles away should work, if the one under the district works as well, we will have 6+5+4+4=19, 1 more than you report. Therefore, in the case that the oil source 4 tiles away work, the one under the district should not.

Case 2: Now let's suppose the one 4 tiles away doesn't work, to see if we will get 18 oil

1/ Ignore this one, it stays the same. 2 sources = 6 oil per turn

2/ If this one does not work, it will grant 3 oil per turn.

3/ Since we suppose above the one 4 tiles away should not work, it will also grant 3 oil per turn, but then now we only account for 6+3+3=12 oil per turn, meaning the one under the district has to supply 6 oil per turn, which is absurd => This case is wrong.

Conclusion:
1. Sources that are 4 tiles away still accumulate faster thanks to the GB.
2. Sources that are under a district DO count towards resource diversity, but DO NOT accumulate resources faster.

Again, this is from what you told me, I really need to see the save file if you want precise information. I really want to see your file, as you can see I'm intrigued by this.

In case you cannot upload the save file, here is something you can test, write down and report your results:

In the second city (the one with horses and niter under the district)
a/ Remove both the improvement on oil and horses and see how much oil per turn and how much niter per turn you lose, to see if the niter under the district gets affected by GB, and the oil 4 tiles away gets affected as well.
b/ Improve the horses, but not the oil, to see if the niter under the district counts towards resource diversity.
c/ Now improve the oil again. With both the oil and horses are now improved again, you should have all the answer.

In the third city
a/ Remove the horses, to see how much oil per turn you lose
b/ Remove the oil 4 tiles away, to see how more oil per turn you lose
c/ Improve the horses again, but not the oil 4 tiles away, to see if you gain how many (if any) oil per turn.

 

[myclan]

Again, you have to send me the save file so I can clearly investigate this, but according to your words, here is a few things:

Case 1: Let's suppose the one 4 tiles away works

1/ The 2 oil sources in the city without the GB: 3 per turn x2 = 6 per turn

2/ The oil source that is 4 tiles away in the city with horses and niter. Let's suppose this works as intended, this oil source will grant 5 oil per turn

3/ The 2 last oil sources in the city with horses. Since at 2/ (above) we suppose the oil source 4 tiles away should work, if the one under the district works as well, we will have 6+5+4+4=19, 1 more than you report. Therefore, in the case that the oil source 4 tiles away work, the one under the district should not.

Case 2: Now let's suppose the one 4 tiles away doesn't work, to see if we will get 18 oil

1/ Ignore this one, it stays the same. 2 sources = 6 oil per turn

2/ If this one does not work, it will grant 3 oil per turn.

3/ Since we suppose above the one 4 tiles away should not work, it will also grant 3 oil per turn, but then now we only account for 6+3+3=12 oil per turn, meaning the one under the district has to supply 6 oil per turn, which is absurd => This case is wrong.

Conclusion:
1. Sources that are 4 tiles away still accumulate faster thanks to the GB.
2. Sources that are under a district DO count towards resource diversity, but DO NOT accumulate resources faster.

Again, this is from what you told me, I really need to see the save file if you want precise information. I really want to see your file, as you can see I'm intrigued by this.

Here is the save file without any mod.

I think Uranium(3+coal+niter+itself)=6, Iron(2+coal+itself)=4 and Coal(3+uranium+niter+itself)+(3+iron+itself)+3=14 all work as intended. What confused me is Niter and Oil. Or if possible, help me to calculate about the horse

 

[Pfeffersack]

So basically, if you only have 1 type of strategic resources, every improvement of that type will get +1, so since oil has a base value of +3, yes, it will become +4 if you don't have any other types of resources. All in all, this building counts diversity, regardless of how many of copies you have of each type.

Great findings

Rises the question for me: Is the behaviour for strategic ressources WAI as well? My first thought was "that must be a bug/oversight", but it might actutally fit thematically to the Grand Bazaar (and therefor being intended): A place where you can get a huge selection of things, attracting both sellers and purchasers.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

So, I tested with your save file. Resources 4 tiles away and resources under a district do benefit like normal, they all count toward your diversity and accumulate more