How fast should one expand?

[Big Ev]

I am currently playing on Noble, and I am about 60/40 when its comes to Win/Loss, playing Standard, Large, and Huge "Play Now" maps. My problem is that about the point where I fully explore the map, I notice I am just spec of nation. Most of the time jammed up in the corner of the continet I start out on.

Now I'm not much for war in this game, because it always turns out to be so damn exhaustive trying to enemy capture cities while fending off potential invading units. The spoils of war never seem to be that good either. Also in every game, I alway miss out on 1 or 2 strategic resources that locked far up and away from me, and held by a competing civ.

So I'm thinking that:
A) I have to learn to build a big army quickly
B) Know when to expand at the opening of the game.

 

[skadistic]

expansion early is dependent on $ wich can be had with religion or markets. I expand when my income is the same as the maintness cost of a new city. having a state religion and the theocracy civil helps generate early money through religion. you can also turn down sience, you fall behind early but can catch up quikly later with more cities.

 

[Juardis]

I think expansion varies for each game. I prefer to expand as fast as possible to carve out my niche in the world, particularly if I'm on a crowded continent. The game I'm currently playing though I expanded so far so fast that my science spending decreased to 20%. Once I stopped expanding and started building, my science spending slowly increased.

What I've noticed though is that I am waaaay behind the tech curve. But since it's just me and the Russians on my continent, and we're pals at the moment, I haven't had to worry about building an maintaining a huge army. I expect that to change soon, but if I had to go to war, my economics were such that I couldn't afford it.

So my advice is, if you expand rapidly and widely, you need to research commerce techs to keep pace with the rising maintainance costs. Otherwise, you'll be hurting for cash quickly and find yourself reducing your tech spending to perilously low levels.

 

[blueinf]

I think expansion varies for each game. I prefer to expand as fast as possible to carve out my niche in the world, particularly if I'm on a crowded continent. The game I'm currently playing though I expanded so far so fast that my science spending decreased to 20%. Once I stopped expanding and started building, my science spending slowly increased.

What I've noticed though is that I am waaaay behind the tech curve. But since it's just me and the Russians on my continent, and we're pals at the moment, I haven't had to worry about building an maintaining a huge army. I expect that to change soon, but if I had to go to war, my economics were such that I couldn't afford it.

So my advice is, if you expand rapidly and widely, you need to research commerce techs to keep pace with the rising maintainance costs. Otherwise, you'll be hurting for cash quickly and find yourself reducing your tech spending to perilously low levels.

I think that the cost of expanding is prohibitive in Civ4, you better use very few cities and try to get the best locations, and even raze all the small-medium cities you conquer during mid game to keep only the capitales.

 

[LeSphinx]

I playing a game where I expand quickly.
But the problem is the maintenance cost!!! It's huge and has slow down my research/culture rates.

As someone figure out the detailled informations about maintenance cost and the effect of the Forbidden palace / versailles ?

LeSphinx

 

[Samson]

As someone figure out the detailled informations about maintenance cost and the effect of the Forbidden palace / versailles ?

This is most of the details - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473

No details on the FP / versailles, but I would guess it just means distance maintanace is to the closest govenment centre.

 

[LeSphinx]

Thanks Samson for the link.
LeSphinx

 

[vinstafresh]

Try to rush for currency. Once you have that, sell your inferior techs to all your neighbours and increase science-spending again. They dish out all their money on whichever tech! I usually upgrade my army with this money the same turn, since other civs might extort you when you have 500+ gold. Build the Oracle for a free tech (Theology for a religion, Metal Casting if your industrious or Alphabet to trade other techs). Go for Pottery for early cottages and make sure they are worked in order for them to develop!

 

[LeSphinx]

Of course I build cottages every place as I usualy go for a cultural victory.
As i win at noble by cultural victory with only 4 cities or 10 max.
I want to figure out what about if I had more cities. Victory sooner ?
But the main problem is civ unkeept (maintenance and distance!!!)

LeSphinx

 

[Halk]

I expand until my science goes below 50%. At that point I finish off whoever I'm attacking, and then consolidate.

By that time I've got many small cities - which is expensive, but even though I'm only at 20-40% science, I've got a much bigger empire than other people, I've also captured workers, and I have cities that can make more.

It's just a case of getting as many workers out as you can, and growing into your cities, then your economy will improve.

Remember it's better to get 30% of 15,000 science than 100% of 5,000 in the long run, because within 50 turns you'll be back up to 70%, and that's a LOT more science generated than someone 1/3 the size of you.

Currently my tactic is to expand early, until I can no longer afford science, and then get things back in order. I try to get at least one holy city, and I try to generate one great prophet so I can cash in on that religion. (not as easy as it sounds for me).

 

[Bluerog]

I make 5-8 until I hit code of laws. With courthouse, I can go to 10 or 12 cities without a problem. By then, you also have marketplaces and can go back up to 60-80% science.

Bluerog

 

[TLHeart]

Expanding all depends on the cash flow coming in. A strong starting location with lots of food and cottages, equals lots of money. Plains, trees, means less money but more production, more army quickly, until support costs get high.

I am finding out that even with the same leader, on the same style map, the starting location will change my early game stratagy on what I research, and how quickly I build that 2nd and 3rd city. The same stratagy does not work every start, and I love having to adapt to my surrondings, and exploring to find the stratagic resources I need. I will march a settler 8 to 10 turns to build a stratagic city. Fill in the gap between the capital and this city later.

 

[eotinb]

I had my worst experience with early and middle expansion in a recent Monarch game. I was the Persians alone on a continent with Elizabeth. The land was very good, so I expanded as fast as I ever had (at that point not knowing the size or other occupants of my continent). By the time I saw English cities, the land was mostly full. I was trying for a conquest win, so I knew I would be going to war with Liz, so I decided early was better than later. By the time I had captured all but three of her cities, I had to take a peace break because I was losing gold at 0% science and my troops were disbanding. In the break, I hooked up the gems I got with one of Liz's cities (new lux for my citizens) and built colosseums in all my bigger towns so they could have more room to grow and earn more money. Anyway, after some slow turns of consolidation, I was eventually able to take the rest of England and once I controlled my entire continent I was in the points lead. After the rebound I was making gold at 80% science with a pretty big army and navy. I could have cruised to a space win had I tried (instead I began a war on another continent -- trying for the original goal of conquest -- and bogged down and eventually abandoned the game when the patch came out). To me the lesson was that no amount of expansion is unrecoverable if you are: a) smart about where you put your cities and b) willing to go through a tough period where everything you do is focused on getting costs down and income up.