How hard is Immortal compared to Emperor?

I'm not sure I completely agree with everyone who says you have to 100% prioritise early science. The National College is certainly the highest priority of the national wonders, and you should be aiming to get it but I disagree that beelining it is in any way necessary. My experience in immortal in G&K is that yes you'll be a fair way behind for a fair while, but that in the late medieval and renaissance you can catch up and shoot past them in tech so fast it's like they're standing still. It's actually a bit uncanny. And that's without even stealing anything, which will certainly catch you up even quicker.

But yes, you certainly need to bulk up defence early on or life will be unpleasant, and maybe refrain from expanding TOO recklessly. Learn to love your archers, they are your best friends!
Don't neglect your navy either! The AI will build heaps of ships - and while you can probably pretty safely ignore triremes, galleases and above are an excellent investment for both offence and defence.
 
Better to do things more guaranteed until you close the gap on the AI bonuses at the start.

Yes. It's better to put hammers and gold for expansion and faith before going for wonders. My first wonder is always the NC ;) Then maybe Oracle and other nice med/ren wonders.

GL is not that much needed. I prefer getting more powerful wonders later like PT/ND or Pisa.
 
Emperor is the last difficulty where you can effectively wonder spam with a small tall empire all game long while facerolling in all departments even with 1 city! Immortal generally requires a move to wide atleast in vanilla. I haven't tried many immortal games in Gods & Kings yet apart from 1 OCC where i only managed 1 wonder early game. 2 were built by turn 32! :D

Emperor is far to easy with my favored builder playstyle while immortal obselete's the playstyle. :/ This is why i wish the AI was smarter, they could reduce the bonuses on immortal & i can still play my favorite style of play & have a challenge.

currently i having big sucess to wonder spam (i mean really wonder spam) in reinassance, and i taking all wonders on immortal. Everything. Can provide the save :D On Immortal. As Ethiopia.
It all depends, and it's still possible. Simply it's harder. But starting from late Medieval i managing to get every single wonder in game, and it will stay so.
 
Only problem is an unknown runaway civ that seems to be leading in a lot of the demographic stuff and I don't think I can possibly ever hope to catch that. But I think even a survival game and "do as good as you can" strategy is fine with me here. We'll see how it goes.

Yes, the longer you stay alive and can watch what's going on, you can re-prioritize next time. You're in a learning phase.
 
If you're winning consistently on Emperor, Immortal will be a good difficulty for you. Don't listen to people who say you need to dramatically change how you prioritize things on Immortal. Yes, getting an early National College is good, and science is important, but wasn't it always? Basically on Immortal you just have to play as accurately as you can and you'll find yourself winning much more often than not. It is substantially more interesting than Emperor though, so I'd highly recommend you make the jump.

I'd also suggest Genghis for your first Immortal game. Keshiks are broken on any difficulty.
 
So I'm on my first immortal game... definitely noticing how wonders are almost pointless to go for.

My question - how are they doing it?

1. Standard way, just getting to the techs way before I am
2. Wonder building bonuses (AI-cheat bonuses, not standard ones)
3. Stockpiling engineers

Has anyone figured this out?
 
i think they start with xtra tech and worker... also depending on your civ, map and victory its.possible to take wonder initiative from ai and have alot of wonders past-medieval. As i said in my current Ethiopia game i have every wonder past reinassance .. its possible but not with ancient ones
 
Early Wonder building and Religion is the painful parts of an immortal start.

Playing ketchup with the AI is a challenge, but I'm not sure removing two elements of gameplay is fun.
 
Early Wonder building and Religion is the painful parts of an immortal start.

Playing ketchup with the AI is a challenge, but I'm not sure removing two elements of gameplay is fun.

They aren't removed? You can easily get SH the ai doesn't seem to want it at all. I consistently get it on immortal and I almost always get a religion. As for the wonders you might not be able to get ancient era wonders too easily but from classical on it gets easier and easier as long as you keep up with your science.
 
Sorry for the wall of show off text. There should be some good points around.

Last immortal game I built Stonehenge and Pyramids but that was all the ancient/classical wonders I got. I went wide, strong religion (lucky routes on my starting 2 scouts and got a lot of goodies including upgrades, faith, 2 techs and culture aside some stupid maps and some money). After classical, if not for that wonder spammer Incas, I would have gotten most wonders not the half I succeeded. I had no marble, no production enhancers aside the 1%prod/faithful population. After renaissance I got most wonders and in modern era, when my computer started to act up (my poor P4 and 2G DDram have their obvious limits even on tactical map), I was about equal in tech with the best civ and a clear runaway on the others.

I got most CS to be allied with me and they provided HALF my science on a wide, 8-9 cities empire - more than 300 each ( me and the CS). Rest were friendly with religion spread - Papal Primacy is a must for this.
What is to notice is that Inca, aside from getting 30-40% of the wonders started to expand their religion (and empire to about 20 cities). They even sent 1 profet and religion bombed my capital and best second city completely into their religion. I started to lose on the religion field, at least the CS closer to INCA. I recommend some spread enhancers on your religion if you go for it on Immortal or Deity. That is an absolute must.

I had 2 early rushes and I easily defended them, first with only 1 warrior and an archer (promoted from scout, those are pure gold) and the second with 2 archers and a horseman. After that I spammed 4-5 horseman to get the barbs - not too many even on ragging barbs as I played a Panagea with 40 CS because there was simply no place for them to spawn. Shall I mention I was playing Songhai and I had almost no opportunity to use my ability :blush: ? Better not.

My current game on emperor I got all but 2 wonders (G Lighthouse - no coastal early and Statue of Zeus as I was late going for that tech) on a lucky capital location with Egypt and marble - first try, no reroll. I got 65% wonder building bonus very fast with UA and religion and bought all my settlers. After my religion spread I got another 15% prod bonus and even 20% more in golden ages to a total of 100% production bonus on wonders ( I hope I did not miscalculated something but I doubt it). True, only on ancient but it was still superb. Early rush as usual, twice by Dido which ended by her losing a Turn 25 city she built next to my capital to get some elephants!, 30 squares away from her own capital! Carthage really needs those happy resources to get their elephants going? I would have gladly traded one of my 7 elephants to them. Anyway, razed and rebuilt the city as it was too close to my capital and losing some resources as well.
On a funny note, 4 of my 7 workers are freed from barbs and were Carthage ones Dido tried to ship to her far away city. Btw, Egypt's chariots are great for killing barbs. Moving 5 squares is great and ranged is wonderful. I was still killing pikes with them in medieval, job a horseman cant do so easily.
Only downside to my usual game play was the Panagea Plus map which gave me access to very few CS in early game (10 out of 30 in early medieval when I got my ships out looking for them). Not to mention that out of my 5 early CS meetings 2 were faith givers - very good, allied the asap to double my faith production - and 3! military ones which were meh.

Both games, especially Immortal one needed very careful diplomacy. Befriending everyone and not declaring wars until you are a runaway is best. Get your frindship declaration colallition and befriend but dont declare it with the ones that are the targets of everyone - A city spamming America in my imortal game and a russia capital killer Rome in the emperor one. But dont declare your hate on the singled ones. 2 reasons: 1. it is very hard to make deals unless you check diplo every turn so you wont actually have a lot to do with your spare resources in a 6 AI love fest. The singled civs always have 2-3 resources they can exhange with you and that is a good bonus. Despite being friends with their enemies, they were always friendly with me, even when I did not accept their bullying on my CS - that goes away decently fast. Second, later in the game, 2 of the singled civ haters turned to friends and I am glad I was not antagonised with my close and military advanced neighbours by an ancient age declaration. If they have nothing to offer for your resources, dont go for money - I feel it is close to stealing anyway and I dont do it unless something very important happens - but keep them around. There will always be a friend who asks nicely for them in exchange for nothing. Good diplo bonus there. And never forget that if a CS is giving you resources it never shows you the double or more amount. You can always trade the hidden surplus without an actual loss and keep around your actual double resources that will later be diplo bonuses or other opportunities.
 
Tech/military is the way to go in Immortal.

Also, how to survive the early game:

1) Get and abuse the faith healers pantheon. Fortify melee units next to your cities on rough terrain.
2) Park scouts next to neighboring lands to see if they're sending over an army.
3) Key techs: archery (archers) and masonry (walls).
4) Keep gold in reserve for emergency purchases.

If you're in among the top 3 in score by medieval, you've pretty much got the game. If there's a runaway civ ahead of you, well, then focus on a single victory condition and DO NOT get distracted. Good luck.
 
Uploaded Screenshot (its bit old, i've advanced further) - My current Immortal game (almost at its end - Science Victory with Ethiopia)
This city got much more wonders, and there another one which got some wonders as well.
This city got hubble and more funny things into it and focuysed on manufacture / culture, capital specialised on science/science wonders with settled academies, 3rd city specialised on gold/wonders backup and land/air units, 4rth city specialised on support/naval

Necessary : Balance Defence (using walls/formation/land features), Food/Happiness + Production. City placement for wonder-city is very key thing. Wonder city should be pure Food/Hammers composition, with ability to adjust the balance between growth and production. Leave cash making and science for other cities. Focus on engeneer slots, and Freedom SP helps alot.
 

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You can still rush early in immortal, no wonders, no buildings, just pure military which can be things like archers and warriors.

In a immortal game as Egypt on standrad sized continets i killed all three of the ai's on my continent with war chariots, even midieval Inda which had pikes. This landed me an easy science victory later.
 
In my Immortal games i noticed one thing - if Yiu have Liz near you dont rush her she favors defence and will always build walls and great wall (lol) before everyone... especially if your border landsare not plains. by medieval she is nearly impossible to kick out esp with great wall she prioritize. Save Generals, defend and focus on outteching her and then bomb with citadelas and fight her when her longbowmans obsolete. Only games i did not won were games when i had her nearby and did otherwise.
 
Just finished a tech victory(turn 300) on immortal with a 5 city tall empire (standard settings) i managed to grab the great library & the pyramids as no one wanted it i guess. Once i out teched the AI i started grabbing wonders. So yeah its hardly wonder spamming like emperor but still easy to win, less fun though as i like building an absolute ton of wonders. :)
 
Unlike emperor, no matter how good you build your empire, their will always be two or three players ahead of you in score. They recieve some ridiculous boost to their research in immortal, so going rationalism is almost a requirement.

As others have mentioned, be prepared for a rough start. Don't expect to just research calender right away and start expanding outwards. The AI starts with pottery, mining, and animal husbandry at this level. They also seem to research archery strait away. Expect early wars, especially if you start somewhat near a warmongerer.

For the first hundred or so turns, expect your military advisor to say 'this empire has an army that can wipe us off the planet', for everybody, as the AI starts with a bunch of warriors, as well as I think two scouts and a worker, meaning not only do they start with a large army, they also can start building more units right away, as they already have a worker.

However, the AI still is incompetent in its attacks, and as long as you have archers, and hopefully a well defensible spot, the AI won't be able to fathom how to take you out. If you play aggressivly and dont worry about being denounced by the whole world, Immortal is still pretty easy.
 
They aren't removed? You can easily get SH the ai doesn't seem to want it at all. I consistently get it on immortal and I almost always get a religion. As for the wonders you might not be able to get ancient era wonders too easily but from classical on it gets easier and easier as long as you keep up with your science.

On emperor it's a race to get some wonders in the beginning. (little to easy, but it's still more of a race than earlier levels)

Now on Immortal it's no longer a race, it's a matter of LUCK whatever a AI builds the wonder I choose to take.

So that means the race was removed from the game and instead I get the hated wheel of fortune ancient ruins crap.

Same with religion, I could do various things on Emperor (to easy to archive I admit), but I still had to CHOOSE to get the religion and get it before the AI's to archive it. Again on Immortal it's now a wheel of fortune game, where I can't do anything to ensure a win. (Because Stonehenge is no longer something I can race to get by playing a certain way and giving up on other things)

Mind you it does add a science race that didn't exist for me on Emperor and if it wasn't for the religion issue, I quite liked that I didn't have to bother with wonders. It was strangely relaxing and freeing not doing wonders for a while, but having beaten the science race medival/pre-medival, I'm already back to choosing if I want a wonder or not.

I think, I might have gotten a little to good at the diplomacy in G&K, I'm having more issues with every leader wanting to friend me, than DoW on immortal. :/
 
In my current immortal game as germany I rushed very early and killed 2 civs then I got stuck in a 3 plus many city-states vs 1 (my side) war. I took 2 cities from Persia but couldn't advance futher because of strong defence on cities, bad terrain and more modern units. The Dutch and the Iroquis did try to attack my cities but I killed a bunch of their units without losses. In the end of the war (turn 107) they had all made peace with me even while I did not know I's and D's locations. They basicly gave me all their gold (I got 2k gold in my bank), many lux (16 happines). I also got the biggest army, most land and 5 cities and soon Im able to build landskent's. I do think I have won this game by now and that was with an early rush on my side.
 
Do immortal AIs get a spy bonus?

I've just started immortal again for the first time since early classic and I've been keeping a tech lead, but I'm constantly getting techs stolen. On emp I just left 1 spy in the capital and it'd get promoted fast and pretty much stopped every attempt. This immortal game I've got a spy who's only been promoted once cause she's failed to stop 9 out of 10 thefts.

On a semi-related note, what influences their steal timer? Egypt will steal from me like every 10 turns despite my counter spy and a Constabulary. I send a spy to an AI capital and it's like 25-35 turns.
 
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