How is Demigod?

[Makonnen5]

im coming back to Civ 3 again and have found that emperor is a bit too easy. i can out expand the AI later on and gain a sprawling empire with little oppsition. soon enough im gobbling up empires turn by turn.

i was wondering how much of a difference is demigod??. i dont want to face overwhelming opposition, but enough to give me a challenge and always have me on my toes.

 

[vmxa]

It is 10% more for the AI. They also get an extra settler to start, so it better gettign off the ground. They have extra units as well.

 

[ecuwins]

That extra settler is big. They also get more free support.

 

[Makonnen5]

thanks, is there any main differences in the combat. whenever i played emperor i never felt the threat of a massive AI invasion. i would launch large invasions but i would never get attacked by them.

 

[Elear]

I really only think that you have to fear invasion on Sid level, and even then, if you are on another island, the AI just can't invade well enough to get more than one or two of your cities.

Demigod and Deity are just progressive steps in terms of how hard it will be to fight. They aren't any smarter.

 

[Makonnen5]

ok thanks. i think im going to try a demigod game with thr Greeks. havent played with them since my warlord days

 

[NickyH]

I've also been thinking about trying Demigod. Does science advance faster on that level? IIRC the AI doesn't get any "discount" on science - it's the human that gets penalties. But AI advantages on buildings and unit support perhaps gives them the infrastructure that is needed for quicker research?

I still find Emperor a good challenge, but it might be fun to generate a bunch of maps on Demigod, and continue to play only when I'm given a really good starting location.

 

[vmxa]

Yes research is faster as they do get an advantage. The Cost factor is 7 on DG. That means they pay 700 beakers for a 1000 beaker tech. On Emp they pay 800.

Combat is the same, except the very early game they will have more starting units, so you have to be careful. They will be tougher as again, they pay 70 shields for that tank, 21 for a sword.

They can afford more units as the extra free support is greater.

In the main, you will have to pay off on demand early in the game as they could hurt you, whereas an emp civ is not going to be able to hit you so hard.

Invasion are shakey as always. I played very little deity, but many many Sid games and they can invade your butt. This is because the can send a dozen or more ships. I have had 30 galleys from one civ show up.

Also the bombardment is hellish as they can send so many frigates and I do not even want to talk about dromons.

So if you are crushing Emp, give DG a shot.

 

[Elear]

Invasion are shakey as always. I played very little deity, but many many Sid games and they can invade your butt. This is because the can send a dozen or more ships. I have had 30 galleys from one civ show up.

Also the bombardment is hellish as they can send so many frigates and I do not even want to talk about dromons.

This is no joke. Sometimes the Sid AI gets so bored and builds a million ships. In the inter-turn, you can observe the endless parades in the sea lanes (especially for seafaring civs).

 

[Tone]

Yes research is faster as they do get an advantage. The Cost factor is 7 on DG. That means they pay 700 beakers for a 1000 beaker tech. On Emp they pay 800.

Sorry to be picky, vmxa, but they don't get a reduction in costs for techs; the human player gets an added penalty, as NickyH says. The overall effect is the same with regards to comparing how long it takes for an AI to research when compared to a human player but it was done this way to limit the blistering research pace shown at the top level. IIRC it was originally as you describe but they made this change very early on in civIII development to avoid super fast finishes at Deity level-heaven knows how fast AI research would be in an early Sid game if they didn't!

For those that have not played the higher levels a difference that you might notice is that if you choose to research an expensive tech like Writing as your first project, it is difficult to get it much below the 50 turn rate unless you have plenty of food and rivers around your starting position to expand quickly

 

[vmxa]

***The formula presented below is accurate for PTW. It is probably also good for C3C, once the additional difficulty levels (e.g. Sid) have been added.
Hope this helps - bvc

This is the formula for research cost for v1.29f.

Research Cost = [MM * [10*COST * (1 - N/[CL*1.75])]/(CF * 10)] - Research done so far

Research Cost and research done so far are in gold.

Square brackets indicate truncation /rounddown

MM = map modifier(tech rate on world sizes tab in the editor)
Tiny 160
Small 200
Standard 240
Large 320
Huge 400

CF = AI cost factor(as on the difficulty tab in the editor)
For the purposes of the research cost formula, CF has a maximum value of 10.
Chieftain 20
Warlord 12
Regent 10
Monarch 9
Emperor 8
Deity 6
Sid 4

COST = technology cost as on the civilization advances tab in the editor.

N = number of civs on the diplomacy screen that have discovered the tech.

CL = number of civs left in the game

There is only one part of the formula that varies during the game: (1 - N/[CL*1.75]). There are two ways in which you can increase it to lower tech cost:
1. Increase N by exploring and buying comms to add civs to your diplomacy screen.
2. Decrease CL by killing civs.

 

[Tone]

@vmxa: then why does the cost of researching a tech increase as you go up the levels?

The formula you have given is the cost of researching a tech for the human player, isn't it?

If I'm wrong, please help me in figuring out where.

 

[Mursi lives]

Since it divides by CF, and since CF decreases with the difficulty level, vmxa's formula gives an increasing cost as you go up the levels.

btw, if i read this correctly, the researching cost at sid level is 50% higher than at deity and I found deity difficult!

 

[Tone]

Since it divides by CF, and since CF decreases with the difficulty level, vmxa's formula gives an increasing cost as you go up the levels.

Yes, I understand that and it fits in with what I am claiming. I believe that this is the formula for the cost to the human player and that the cost for the AI remains constant.

Someone please convince why am I wrong (if I am).

 

[Mursi lives]

I was just saying it's clearly a formula for humans.

For the AIs, even if the tech cost remains the same, they will research faster, because they will grow faster, thanks to the shields discount and the extra settlers and workers. I never dared to play at sid level but i assume AIs are limited only by the 4 turns minimun.

 

[vmxa]

Here is what I have seen many times at Sid. I have say 30 towns, those that makes sense have a lib and a market. Any given civ with 9 towns is out researching me.

Note this is after all contacts have been made. They seemed to fall off very little, even after many of their tiles are polluted and non productive.

This cannot be explained by anything, but them get the discount on the beaker cost.

I have inspected their towns and count shields and beakers and see that at the later stages of the game, I have the same improvements (not culture ones) they have and often better use of tiles and they still out research me.

BTW the formula was posted by someone else and confirmed by others for vanilla and PTW and works in C3C. I made an XLS to due it way back and it matched what CA shows, when it came out.

Ok, I see how it works. The AI pays the same for all levels and is only impacted by the map. It is the formula for humans. So a std map 20 tech on Regent is 480 and on DG it is 685. The human pays 685 and the AI pays the same 480. So at Sid you will pay 1200 and they are paying only 480.

 

[Makonnen5]

yea im playing as China right now and im expanding pretty well, but the other Civs are killing me in the tech race though. im goin to try and build swordman and go after my nearest opponent,germany.

 

[ThERat]

on demigod, it will help you if you build the Great Library. This way you can accumulate cash for the later stages of the tech race.

You need to do pointy stick research, get techs that the AI shuns and give you monopoly value. A monopoly tech is great for trading.

As for expansion, you need to try and take on an enemy early on. Mount an attack with a big stack and take what you can and then sue for peace grabbing a tech or more cities in the process. Be careful about culture flips though, as the AI will surely have higher culture values than your civ.

 

[vmxa]

I don't think the GLB is useful on DG in most games, because the AI will get to education too fast. If it is an island map, then it could payoff. I would nt say it is a bad idea, but I skip it on DG.

I do like to race to Philo and get Lit for free as you can trade that very profitable in most maps.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

What does happen on Sid is that, on an island map, an AI will build units SO fast (with their 40% rate) that they will start choking on unit support. War, for a SID AI, is the best way for them to run research, cause they don't spend all their money on their obsolete units.