How is the learning curve of Shogun 2 compared to civ5 ?

ZooBooBooZoo

Chieftain
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Hi there, it took me a reasonable amount of experience and time to become a noob with civ5 :mischief: and I wanted to know does total war shogun 2 has such a stiff learning curve?

(never played total war before)
 
About the same IMO. Maybe even a little easier, as the campaign map is simpler and with less features.

As a latecomer to the Total War games myself, I don't think you're going to be disappointed. :)
 
I really enjoyed playing CIV5 but it was quite difficult to get all of those factors together.
unfortunately I don't have time anymore to study a certain game(although the ones have to study are obviously the best ones), I only got a few weekend-days a month to play...
 
With civ5, the tutorial wasn't enough, and I had to dig up a lot of material off the web.

How is shogun 2's tutorial/tips compared to that? and how long does it take to master the basics?
 
With civ5, the tutorial wasn't enough, and I had to dig up a lot of material off the web.

How is shogun 2's tutorial/tips compared to that? and how long does it take to master the basics?

if you have played other TW games (especially napoleon and empire), you will be very much accustommed witth the basics. the tutorial covers a lot. You got an encyclopediae trhat explains most of what you need to know. After your first playthrough you will know most of it
 
well even if you have never played TW, Civ has a lot of the same features. diplomacy and technology tree are very likewise. Diplomacy might be a bit more complex cause there are more clans. there are no such things as culture or social policies, cause there is only 1 victory condition: conquest. the use of agents might new to you, but it isnt hard. economy is very important, cause you need money for the recruitment and upkeep of yur armies and fleets, and to construct buildings (which dont require upkeep). Happines is also a factor, but it's regional, unlike in Civ V where its universal.

maybe the biggest change (apart from the real-time battles), is that you have to remember moving your units and agents before you it end turn, cause the game doesnt noify you. But units are in stacks (which you wont have a plenty, cause an army is expensive), and the number of agents are limited, so it isnt necessary to be noticed
 
Shogun 2 is easier than Civ 5 in terms of the number of things you have to keep track at the same time. And it is quite easy to beat the highest (legendary) difficulty compared to deity in Civ 5.
 
Never played TW before...

Well, I guess I'll have to check it out for myself

If you've never played any TW game, Shogun 2 is probably one of the easiest to start with - the tutorial campaign develops into a full-length Chosokabe campaign. However the scaling between battle tutorials isn't good - the advanced (siege attack) tutorial is much tougher than the others; it's still a step up from earlier games which mostly had one very basic tutorial which was repeated word for word in each instalment. There's also no tutorial for Fall of the Samurai, which unless you've played Empire or Napoleon will present you with very different combat, particularly at sea but also due to the greater difficulty of attacking fortified towns with guns compared with arrows (and the greater ease with which defenders can defend with the same weapons).
 
I think Civ5 is easier to learn and play.
 
If you've never played any TW game, Shogun 2 is probably one of the easiest to start with - the tutorial campaign develops into a full-length Chosokabe campaign. However the scaling between battle tutorials isn't good - the advanced (siege attack) tutorial is much tougher than the others; it's still a step up from earlier games which mostly had one very basic tutorial which was repeated word for word in each instalment. There's also no tutorial for Fall of the Samurai, which unless you've played Empire or Napoleon will present you with very different combat, particularly at sea but also due to the greater difficulty of attacking fortified towns with guns compared with arrows (and the greater ease with which defenders can defend with the same weapons).
This is so true. Luckily there is one thing called Naval Bombardment that can be used for assaults on coastal towns. I won an assault with relatively low losses thanks essentially to it, since the enemy had its forces very concentrated around a couple gates.
 
I love naval bombardment.

Saved my ass so many times :lol:

As for difficulty curve, besides getting into the groove of things (non-tile based movement, remembering where your units are, different UI), I'd say the most challenging change will be the combat. Learning to successfully command a battle and develop tactics/strategies takes time, as well as learning all the units strengths and weaknesses. Especially since the A.I. in Shogun 2 isn't all too dull, and knows how to actually win a battle (I've had some very close calls).

But its worth it in the end, I love the Total War series, and especially Shogun 2. I've put way too many hours into that game (more than twice that of Civ V, which I also love).


EDIT: Dammit JoanK you necro'd this!
 
Are there any quick start guides around here for Shogun 2 (Fall of Samurai specifically)?

I tried getting into a campaign but was overwhelmed and the tutorial didn't help much. In particular I have no clue how trade works.
 
Are there any quick start guides around here for Shogun 2 (Fall of Samurai specifically)?

I tried getting into a campaign but was overwhelmed and the tutorial didn't help much. In particular I have no clue how trade works.

FOTS doesnt have a tutorial, unfortunatly.

Trade is very basic. Go into the diplomacy, and make a trade agreement with a clan. Most of the trade goes is sea trade, so you and your potential partner need to have a harbour. And every harbour can only have a limited amount of trade routes.

An advice: every trade has to go through the capital. So if you have harbours in provinces neighbouring the capital province, you can make more trade routes
 
Are there any quick start guides around here for Shogun 2 (Fall of Samurai specifically)?

I tried getting into a campaign but was overwhelmed and the tutorial didn't help much. In particular I have no clue how trade works.

This is always an issue with TW games. In Empire and Medieval you start with four provinces and several armies to manage right at the start - Shogun 2 is pretty kind by comparison (particularly since province management has been heavily simplified and you're no longer presented with a dozen different buildings each with its own upgrade path from the start of the game), but the best tutorial for Fall of the Samurai is actually Empire's US independence campaign, since it introduces modern warfare!

Yes, trade is simple - there's nothing to it beyond clicking 'Request trade agreement" and everything else is automated. The supply/demand/cost per resource etc. screens appear to be there simply for flavour (some strategic resources are available through trade, but you tend to need strategic resources only late in the game by which time you'll probably have sources of most yourself).

Total War campaigns play more simply than they look; they have more of a learning threshold than a learning curve, in that once you overcome the initial difficulty of working out the basic system everything else on the strategic side tends to be rinse-and-repeat. Ultimately they boil down to the usual strategy game formula: make money, then build army, then go on rampage. The guy with the strongest economy wins. Managing money comes down mostly to managing taxes and happiness - taxes make people unhappy, repression makes them happy again. Farms make money and food; castles that repress people eat food. All other building decisions are optional to some degree, and most are independent of one another (although certain units require two or more - stables aren't much use without a dojo for producing bow, spear and/or sword units, and Warrior Monks can only be recruited if the province with a monastery also has spear or bow buildings).

Shogun 2 is much simpler than the older games in this regard; those had a separate population mechanic to manage, which determined how fast you could upgrade your towns, and with its own building chains to manage; in Shogun you can upgrade anything with enough money. You had many more building options, and you no longer need to create or develop agent characters for diplomacy or research, or use generals as provincial governors (with a whole series of related stats). Unit replenishment has also been simplified and automated - you don't need specific tech buildings for units to replenish, nor do they need manual retraining (on the downside they can't actually get manual retraining if you want it, say if they're in a province with an armourer).

Don't over-rely on trade, because although it makes you money quickly - and in the early game, securely - the eventual 'realm divide' will ultimately cost you all your trade partners, and before that make you vulnerable to having your trade routes attacked, giving you the unpleasant surprise of suddenly going bankrupt when you have a giant army to support.

The best approach is to start with a few turns following the missions you're given, as at least in the tutorial Chosokabe campaign they're intended to introduce you to game concepts (you'll usually get a 'Beat this army' mission, then a 'Take this province' mission, then a 'Use an agent ability' or 'Build this building/unit' mission; in both Rise and Fall of the Samurai, but not that I've noticed in vanilla, you sometimes get 'Enter diplomatic agreement with Clan X' missions as well).

You then need to train yourself not to think of missions as a straitjacket - you won't get missions telling you everything you need to do; once you've learned to do X, you can do it again as you see fit.
 
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