[C3C] how long does it take to complete a game

[Jivilov]

I am pretty sure, I would never have said something like this... Temples are a complete waste of shields, and Colosseums (Colossei?) are even worse...
(Except for cultural victories, obviously.)

Okey-doke, got it. Thanks for setting me straight. My apologies for misrepresenting your position. So if no Temples or Colosseums then simply Luxes plus Markets and the Lux Slider for Happy Faces then?

 

[justanick]

So if no Temples or Colosseums then simply Luxes plus Markets and the Lux Slider for Happy Faces then?

Yes. And perhaps war happyness and world wonders. And libraries for culture.

 

[jarred!]

But less culture per maintenance and shield. Compared to cathedrals colloseums are clearly less efficient, especially if you get Michelangelo.

It may even make sense to build temples just to build cathedrals and then sell away the no longer needed temples if the situation warrants it.

In the case of cultural growth for culture victory, culture efficiency does not matter since the best practice would be to build all culture-producing improvements. Otherwise, colosseums and temples have equivalent efficiency. A temple might increase in value relative to a colosseum once cathedrals can be built, but this does not effect a temple's efficiency.

 

[Captain_Jack]

The articles in the War Academy at the CivIII Civilization Fanatics website are very weak compared to what is being written here. I've learned more from this thread than from any of those articles. I know that Civ3 seems like yesterday's news but there are obviously still a significant number of people playing the game and what is listed on the War Academy should really be the definitive articles.

Have any of you considered rewriting those pieces? It would be a lot of work and only a little glory, but it might be fun to do for someone that is truly expert.

 

[tjs282]

On topic (at last!), I was initially going to write that most of my Civ3 (solo) games seem to take 100+ hours (with SGs taking even longer!). But with hindsight, I suspect that a lot of that may be due to AFK-time. Because I've recently instituted a policy of saving every time I leave the computer, and I just won a Standard Emp map (80% Continents, 3 byo map — I think) by English (Cavalry) Domination in about 1700 AD, and it took me 'only' ~36 hours in total.

I could probably have won a little earlier than that, but not much earlier, because it took a while to get a tech-edge.

Spoiler Wot 'appened...? :

Although I'd made the Republic-slingshot, my core area was pretty poor (River-Plains, but Mountains blocking several 1st-ring sites, Tundra due north, Hills + Desert to the west), so couldn't grow as fast as my southern neighbours. So (although they had an 'unfortunate' falling-out later, aided and abetted by yours truly ) the Ottomans and Mayans were ahead in tech for much of the Medieval. I got the FP-alert shortly after going to Republic, but only by virtue of conquest; and all my 1st-ring core-towns were too busy at that point building units for the ongoing wars for me to feel comfortable diverting shields into the FP instead.

Due to the extensive Mountain ranges on this map, Salamanca was at 2nd-ring (CxxCxxC) distance from London, with Karakorum only about 6-7 tiles further beyond it. So my core didn't really feel secure until after I'd conquered the Iroquois (due south), the Mongols (south of them) and incidentally put the final nail into The Jerk's coffin-lid. But by that point, I was already pre-building ToE and Hoovers; and though one of my combat-Settlements in former Mongolia made a very nice FP-site, I had to hand-build it, because I didn't get any MGLs until Ozzie finally got reckless enough to DoW me, shortly after The Jerk's demise.

(That said, I did get at least one SGL — for Chemistry, IIRC — which I used for JSBachs, for the dual benefits of universal happy-faces against WW, and AI-Wonder-cascade disruption).

I beelined MilTrad, but only just made it there first, and Ozzie got it shortly afterwards (he'd also built SoZ, and had Iron, Horses and Saltpeter). I'd gone fairly light on defence, so only had a few Muskets + Cannon at that point, but even if fortified on the southern Mongolian Mountains, I didn't fancy their chances vs. Sipahi. And while Nationalism would have been quicker for improved defenders, it wouldn't have improved my bombardment, or my unit-movement. So I wanted (at least) Steam and RepParts before I took on the Ottomans (the last live rival on my Continent) — but even once I had those techs (and Infs + Arty + Cavs), they still took a while to crumble, since they still had a lot of units (the Mayan war may have given Ozzie his GA, not sure).

Also, I wasn't playing in a particularly focussed fashion: though I didn't really need to, I eventually researched as far as Tanks for invading former Babylon (long since overrun by the Celts: Hammi was left huddling on a 1-tile island). And given that I only needed 3 towns (~27 tiles) in former Babylon to win, I could probably have won about a century earlier, if I'd just cash-rushed a few (more) Settlers to fill the Culture-holes that were left between my Ottoman conquests...

The articles in the War Academy at the CivIII Civilization Fanatics website are very weak compared to what is being written here. I've learned more from this thread than from any of those articles. I know that Civ3 seems like yesterday's news but there are obviously still a significant number of people playing the game and what is listed on the War Academy should really be the definitive articles.

Any articles specifically? I know several (a lot?) of them were originally written for Vanilla/PtW, so may now be outdated in places, but from what I remember, a lot (most?) of the basic information is still good?

I learned a lot from there — though it is sometimes necessary to go through the Discussion thread as well (or have those links got broken?)

 

[CKS]

In the case of cultural growth for culture victory, culture efficiency does not matter since the best practice would be to build all culture-producing improvements. Otherwise, colosseums and temples have equivalent efficiency. A temple might increase in value relative to a colosseum once cathedrals can be built, but this does not effect a temple's efficiency.

When going for a cultural victory, culture efficiency most definitely matters. You need to get culture built as soon as possible, so you need to build the most culturally efficient buildings first when you have a choice. For some towns, you can build them as they become available, but most towns will have a choice of what to build first. While eventually you will want all culture-producing buildings in your towns, you would never want to build a colosseum before a library. (Small exception: I have a large, recently acquired city, and I can pop-rush both a colosseum and a library immediately if I do it colosseum first and then library but not library first and then colosseum, due to lack of intermediate builds.)

 

[Spoonwood]

I am pretty sure, I would never have said something like this... Temples are a complete waste of shields, and Colosseums (Colossei?) are even worse...
(Except for cultural victories, obviously.)

Histographic games also makes for another good use of temples... to grab sea squares, for example.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

(Small exception: I have a large, recently acquired city, and I can pop-rush both a colosseum and a library immediately if I do it colosseum first and then library but not library first and then colosseum, due to lack of intermediate builds.)

I don't understand this, why it could be done one way but not the other?

 

[Takhisis]

A colosseum produces the same number of content faces per maintenance cost and shields as a temple. Seems equally as efficient to me.

Mathematically yes, it's 120 shields for 2 culture and 2 faces for the former and 60-1-1 for the latter. But Templescan be built far earlier, so are more likely to double their cultural output (the limit's a thousand years, I think?) than Colossea, and they enable construction of Cathedrals.

Okey-doke, got it. Thanks for setting me straight. My apologies for misrepresenting your position. So if no Temples or Colosseums then simply Luxes plus Markets and the Lux Slider for Happy Faces then?

Yes. And perhaps war happyness and world wonders. And libraries for culture.

It's an equation that has so many variables… doesn't culture help with city conversions? A tiny bit? In my Arabia game a couple of months ago I think I flipped four out of five Carthaginian cities, one of them right during a war with Germany which was attacking my exclaves on the other side of erstwhile Carthaginian territory.

Great Wonders (what's this about world wonders? ) are a crutch that isn't always attainable. Especially when certain scumbags in certain civs get better starting positions and they are scientific to boot. And at higher difficulties the AI just cheats outright.

 

[Jivilov]

It's an equation that has so many variables… doesn't culture help with city conversions? A tiny bit? In my Arabia game a couple of months ago I think I flipped four out of five Carthaginian cities, one of them right during a war with Germany which was attacking my exclaves on the other side of erstwhile Carthaginian territory.

Sure it does. My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that total Civ culture is the primary determinant as opposed to city garrisons or competing culture pops along the border. Unfortunately at Emperor or higher you're unlikely to have a cultural advantage over any but the most moribund of AI Civs.

 

[Takhisis]

Ah, Emperor… for many years I've been stuck now (in the epic game) at a personal skill level that makes me capable of winning on Monarch quite often but makes Emperor my definite ceiling.

 

[Jivilov]

Had the same problem after hitting Emperor. Was stuck there nearly 15 years before finally getting the monkey off my back six months ago. Reaching Demigod--equivalent to Deity in Vanilla [Edit: Wrong again. See below.]--is the fulfillment of a personal dream, and comes with the realization that I've probably reached my own level of (in?)competence in this greatest of all grand strategic wargames. Now I can die happy . Cheers!

 

[Takhisis]

Really? Tell us your secret, Timmy Turner Jivilov!

 

[Jivilov]

On topic (at last!), I was initially going to write that most of my Civ3 (solo) games seem to take 100+ hours (with SGs taking even longer!). But with hindsight, I suspect that a lot of that may be due to AFK-time. Because I've recently instituted a policy of saving every time I leave the computer, and I just won a Standard Emp map (80% Continents, 3 byo map — I think) by English (Cavalry) Domination in about 1700 AD, and it took me 'only' ~36 hours in total.

I could probably have won a little earlier than that, but not much earlier, because it took a while to get a tech-edge.

Spoiler Wot 'appened...? :

Due to the extensive Mountain ranges on this map, Salamanca was at 2nd-ring (CxxCxxC) distance from London, with Karakorum only about 6-7 tiles further beyond it. So my core didn't really feel secure until after I'd conquered the Iroquois (due south), the Mongols (south of them) and incidentally put the final nail into The Jerk's coffin-lid. But by that point, I was already pre-building ToE and Hoovers; and though one of my combat-Settlements in former Mongolia made a very nice FP-site, I had to hand-build it, because I didn't get any MGLs until Ozzie finally got reckless enough to DoW me, shortly after The Jerk's demise.

Spoiler Wot 'appened...? :

"The Jerk"? You mean my good buddy Temujin, or Xerxes?

 

[Takhisis]

The Mongols, then the jerk, so I suppose this particular jerk is Xerxes.

 

[Jivilov]

Really? Tell us your secret, Timmy Turner Jivilov!

None actually. They're all here in the Forums (Fora?). You just gotta track 'em down and apply to your own games. Probably spent at least an hour, maybe two of study for every hour of game time. Sorta like chess, with its opening and endgame theory plus middlegame principles and tactical puzzle-solving. Unlike chess though, it's a lot easier (for me anyway) to relate Civ3 Conquests to real life, especially human history. Each new game is a world unto itself, practically unique with various combinations of Civs, Maps, Climates, etc. It'll never get old.

 

[Jivilov]

The Mongols, then the jerk, so I suppose this particular jerk is Xerxes.

Could be, although he doesn't mention the Persians otherwise.

 

[Takhisis]

Before I go to bed: do people here actually make a point of triggering Golden Ages for those AIs with early UUs at, say, the ‘best’ i.e. worst for the AI point in time, e.g. too early or just as they've entered anarchy or are still in despotism?

 

[justanick]

Reaching Demigod--equivalent to Deity in Vanilla--

While it its is the sixth difficulty setting and point earned are proportional to being the sixth difficulty setting those 2 difficulty setting are not the same. Demigod has cost factor 7, Deity has 6 and as i recall the later did not change.

 

[Jivilov]

While it its is the sixth difficulty setting and point earned are proportional to being the sixth difficulty setting those 2 difficulty setting are not the same. Demigod has cost factor 7, Deity has 6 and as i recall the later did not change.

Right. I was mistakenly following Ginger Ale's erroneous figure. The pertinent thread is here (and funny I'd forgotten I started it):
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/demigod-deity-difficulty.489643/

So I guess my "dream" is shattered and I gotta go for Deity? Nah. I'm happy where I am--at least for now.