How many beakers per turn for a tech lead?

[The Lardossen]

It's not the science percentage, but the amount of beakers. Very often heard, and absolutely true. But what amount of beakers would roughly be needed to be top dog in science on average per era?

If you've rex'ed extremely, 30% would be more than enough for producing the most beakers, and if you didn't, even 100% could be too little. So the slider isn't important at all. But I'm not sure how much beakers I should aim for then, on Emperor.

 

[cabert]

too lazy to search myself, but one advice : look at the GOTM4 spoilers

 

[jimbob27]

I've been lead to believe the slider really only has 2 positions. 100% and 0%.

All the other ones in between result in less beakers/coins being produced, because the game can't account for fractions of a beaker/coin. Whenever it works out the 30% or whatever, if some fractions are involved in the equasion, it rounds down so you loose out.

 

[warpus]

I've been lead to believe the slider really only has 2 positions. 100% and 0%.

All the other ones in between result in less beakers/coins being produced, because the game can't account for fractions of a beaker/coin. Whenever it works out the 30% or whatever, if some fractions are involved in the equasion, it rounds down so you loose out.

I wish we had the SDK already so this could be fixed. Could just round up or down, depending on the number.. the proper way to round!

 

[cabert]

maybe so, but the OP's question isn't about the slider
it's about setting a "beaker output per turn" goal for tech leading

Just don't be too overconfident about what you can do alone.
Look at one think : which AI is always tech leader?
Mansa MUSA.
Why?
Because he always (cautious, pleased, angry, friendly) trades tech.

trading tech is the only way to tech lead
sometimes you don't need beakers for that to happen!
if a GP gives you a tech no one else knows, you can trade it for much of what you didn't know

edit : spelling

 

[Willem]

I've been lead to believe the slider really only has 2 positions. 100% and 0%.

All the other ones in between result in less beakers/coins being produced, because the game can't account for fractions of a beaker/coin. Whenever it works out the 30% or whatever, if some fractions are involved in the equasion, it rounds down so you loose out.

There were some tests done with this and they didn't work very well. There were a few beakers gained, but at the cost of a bunch of gold. And the research benefits were so minimal it just wasn't worth the trouble.

 

[Zombie69]

I wish we had the SDK already so this could be fixed. Could just round up or down, depending on the number.. the proper way to round!

This would be even worse, since it would encourage people to micromanage in order to have the maximum possible round up in every single city!

Edit : typo.

 

[Zombie69]

There were some tests done with this and they didn't work very well. There were a few beakers gained, but at the cost of a bunch of gold. And the research benefits were so minimal it just wasn't worth the trouble.

Only because the maths were wrong. Anyone who knows elementary school math knows that binary science is optimal.

 

[The Lardossen]

maybe so, but the OP's question isn't about the slider
it's about setting a "beaker output per turn" goal for tech leading

Just don't be too overconfident about what you can do alone.
Look at one think : which AI is always tech leader?
Mansa MUSA.
Why?
Because he always (cautious, pleased, angry, friendly) trades tech.

trading tech is the only way to tech lead
sometimes you don't need beakers for that to happen!
if a GP gives you a tech no one else knows, you can trade it for much of what you didn't know

edit : spelling

Ofcourse you'll need to research fast (and clever enough, okay) to get that tech you can trade. If you trail behind, you can't trade anything. So you'll need a mininum amount of beakers to keep up and get a few techs no one has already.

 

[hema80]

Where do you see how many bakers you produce each turn? Not just in one city, your civ. I think it should be displayed next to the gold amout on the top left corner of the screen.

Is it in the financial advisor, above tax?

 

[pholkhero]

yes
(too short)

 

[Willem]

Only because the maths were wrong. Anyone who knows elementary school math knows that binary science is optimal.

Regardless of whether it's optimal or not, the gains are so marginal as to be not worth the effort it takes. You'd need an empire of at least 30 cities in order to squeeze out a single average cost tech in a game. It's just a waste of time IMO.

 

[scooter]

@Willem and Zombie- please don't start this binary science argument again, because it just depends on the playing style of the person playing whether the binary science rate is worth it or not.

 

[Willem]

@Willem and Zombie- please don't start this binary science argument again, because it just depends on the playing style of the person playing whether the binary science rate is worth it or not.

You did notice I included "IMO" didn't you? If someone wants to micromanage a few extra beakers out of a game, that's up to them. It's certainly not for me, and I suspect it's not for the vast majority of players either.

 

[Sisiutil]

To me, a tech lead isn't just about beakers. It's about whether you're ahead or behind in your own tech research strategy.

For example, I often play as Caesar, in which case I'm focused on early wars with a Praetorian rush to take out at least two other Civs before Longbowmen and Macemen show up and make my beloved Praetorians obsolete. Following that strategy, I will deliberately avoid researching ANY tech that doesn't have a substantial impact on my UU-based military might--religions (I'll capture my holy cities, thank you very much), music, etc. I'll probably not research horseback riding either, and depending on the map, I won't worry about naval techs for awhile.

So am I behind the other civs in overall tech? Probably. But the AI's approach to tech research mostly seems a very balanced one. I specialize. By the time the medieval era rolls around and I start consolidating my empire, I'm ready to slingshot ahead of them. I can usually tech trade or even force tribute for techs I lack by that point.

Now if I'm playing as Catherine for a cultural win, the tech bee-lines are different, but the concept is the same. So long as you can get to the techs you need to support your strategy, your beaker count vis-a-vis the AIs shouldn't matter in a strict sense.

 

[cabert]

though i agree with you, Sisiutil, on the concept of "specialized research", i mostly use it because it gives you some techs the AI (one or more) hasn't researched yet. So gives you an opportunity to trade, and so get all the techs you left behind.

 

[GABB]

You did notice I included "IMO" didn't you? If someone wants to micromanage a few extra beakers out of a game, that's up to them. It's certainly not for me, and I suspect it's not for the vast majority of players either.

I'm agree with Zombie, I think that "binary science slider" are small micromanagement, If you don't use it, you need to adjust to X %, IMO, this is a micromanagement too...

 

[Willem]

I'm agree with Zombie, I think that "binary science slider" are small micromanagement, If you don't use it, you need to adjust to X %, IMO, this is a micromanagement too...

If you set your research at 80% and only adjust when you start going into the red, that requires a lot less micromanagement than switching between 0 and 100% research every 5 turns. I can sometimes go for hundreds of turns without adjusting my slider at all doing it that way.

 

[Sisiutil]

though i agree with you, Sisiutil, on the concept of "specialized research", i mostly use it because it gives you some techs the AI (one or more) hasn't researched yet. So gives you an opportunity to trade, and so get all the techs you left behind.

Good point, I do that too--but I tech trade very carefully. The idea of specialized research is to make it to your targeted techs before anyone else so you can build that Wonder/unit/etc. and use it to your advantage before anyone else can. Once that's been accomplished, I'll look into trading it.

 

[acidsatyr]

binary science is a way to go. It is your problem if you can be annoyed with switching slider from 0 - 100 (and that is just so hard)

You not only get more money at the end, but also, in case of emergency you can spend all that cash for upgrades... and that alone is enough to varant its use