How many trade posts do you build in your cities?
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TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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At some point, maybe as early as 50-60 turns before victory, probably earlier, gold and science are more important than food, so I always throw trading posts onto jungles and also onto maybe half of the non-river grassland.
There's a case to be made that if on turn 200 you could push a button and make most of your grassland go from being irrigated to having trading posts, it'd be a very good idea, but in practice it'd be a drag (and you'd have to pay for the workers). Late game you can run a small food deficit for 20 or 30 turns and not lose population, and growth is almost pointless.
There's a case to be made that if on turn 200 you could push a button and make most of your grassland go from being irrigated to having trading posts, it'd be a very good idea, but in practice it'd be a drag (and you'd have to pay for the workers). Late game you can run a small food deficit for 20 or 30 turns and not lose population, and growth is almost pointless.
lankypeter
Chieftain
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Tundra, flatland jungle, and puppet cities. That is all.
I have been too pessimistic about trade posts in bnw.
These days, I normally actually go for domination victories. Domestic gold output of cities (economics screen) is more important, together with city connections. Foreign trade routes are welcome, but of secondary importance to the overall domination win.
Therefore, trade posts are welcome addition in non-riverline terrain. It's substantial amount of gold, even so. This is, because you can actually build free maintenance cost gold line buildings in ALL your cities.
Despite DanQs warning in polycast episode about not building all buildings in all cities. You can, and ultimately should build all gold line buildings in all cities, because there's no drawbacks, only benefits.
Science line buildings get built until university in all my cities. Best cities from that point get public school + research lab.
Happiness line buildings get built until colosseum + circus in all my cities. From that point on, I prefer cheaper happiness lines of buildings, such as autocracy walls building line, and barracks building line. These get built in all cities, eventually. Not strictly necessary though, admittedly, because late game, you can still raze cities at manageable pace, without tanking overall happiness. World ideology also eliminates ideology pressure happiness penalties.
All cities should work a few trade posts at least, so you get more benefit out of gold line buildings with their modifiers?
These days, I normally actually go for domination victories. Domestic gold output of cities (economics screen) is more important, together with city connections. Foreign trade routes are welcome, but of secondary importance to the overall domination win.
Therefore, trade posts are welcome addition in non-riverline terrain. It's substantial amount of gold, even so. This is, because you can actually build free maintenance cost gold line buildings in ALL your cities.
Despite DanQs warning in polycast episode about not building all buildings in all cities. You can, and ultimately should build all gold line buildings in all cities, because there's no drawbacks, only benefits.
Science line buildings get built until university in all my cities. Best cities from that point get public school + research lab.
Happiness line buildings get built until colosseum + circus in all my cities. From that point on, I prefer cheaper happiness lines of buildings, such as autocracy walls building line, and barracks building line. These get built in all cities, eventually. Not strictly necessary though, admittedly, because late game, you can still raze cities at manageable pace, without tanking overall happiness. World ideology also eliminates ideology pressure happiness penalties.
All cities should work a few trade posts at least, so you get more benefit out of gold line buildings with their modifiers?
DanQ
Owner, Civilized Communication
The drawback to take into consideration is the time spent on the production, or the gold spent on the purchase, of such buildings... hence my warning.
chazzycat
Deity
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not every city has to be good at everything. it's more efficient to have certain cities focus on gold (with luxes, trade routes, gold buildings, etc.) and other cities focus on other things. If there are no gold tiles or trade routes in a given city, it's probably better to focus on production or science for that city rather than invest in trade posts AND gold buildings just to get a couple GPT.
Unless the only other choices are to build more units that cost gpt. Production can outrun research at times. But I guess switching over to Research or Wealth is a better way to go than to spend 5 turns building a needless building, say faith ones?
I always so far go for domination wins.
It's why I suppose I don't specialize really the cities into gold, science or production. Early hammers are much needed and wanted. I frequently play wide empire, and frequently play autocracy for the needed happiness and sometimes needed double oil resources.
Fight and kill early, less trouble later, with AIs and their CS allies. Warmonger penalty, meh, it doesn't really matter to me, at least on king difficulty at least. Just kill them and no AI, no warmonger penalty - you win domination.
Preferably, you would fight 1v1 wars vs AI, but in defensive war, with strong army, you can defend surprisingly well vs multiple AIs on multiple fronts. You kill enough of their units, and you can sue for peace without victor.
I play the game from total war perspective. You need enough gold, to stay at balance point with revenues and expenses, at the VERY LEAST.
Staying at negative gpt is bad, your units start disbanding themselves. Only military units, are the arbiters of (domination) victory! Iron and blood, like Bismarck said. Not consensus politics of democracy. If somebody votes against you in WC, kill them before the next vote, so THEY LOSE THEIR VOTES CAUSE THEYRE DEAD.
All expendable gold goes to unit maintenance basically. If cash exists, upgrade units into modern unit, OR build more units. (just to be sure, win before even entering the war, this is what Sun Tzu teaches)
It's why I suppose I don't specialize really the cities into gold, science or production. Early hammers are much needed and wanted. I frequently play wide empire, and frequently play autocracy for the needed happiness and sometimes needed double oil resources.
Fight and kill early, less trouble later, with AIs and their CS allies. Warmonger penalty, meh, it doesn't really matter to me, at least on king difficulty at least. Just kill them and no AI, no warmonger penalty - you win domination.
Preferably, you would fight 1v1 wars vs AI, but in defensive war, with strong army, you can defend surprisingly well vs multiple AIs on multiple fronts. You kill enough of their units, and you can sue for peace without victor.
I play the game from total war perspective. You need enough gold, to stay at balance point with revenues and expenses, at the VERY LEAST.
Staying at negative gpt is bad, your units start disbanding themselves. Only military units, are the arbiters of (domination) victory! Iron and blood, like Bismarck said. Not consensus politics of democracy. If somebody votes against you in WC, kill them before the next vote, so THEY LOSE THEIR VOTES CAUSE THEYRE DEAD.
All expendable gold goes to unit maintenance basically. If cash exists, upgrade units into modern unit, OR build more units. (just to be sure, win before even entering the war, this is what Sun Tzu teaches)
Cromagnus
Deity
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- Sep 11, 2012
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- 2,272
I don't bother to build trading posts until I'm closing in on the Rationalism bonus, and even then, not often, and only on jungle. The problem is the tile improvement time. It's like 11 turns. And of course, the loss of whatever might be under it. A hill? Needs to be a mine. Freshwater? Needs to be a farm. 
As far as the value of gold buildings, it really depends. Did you open Liberty and get the pyramids? Just run with negative gpt and pillage-repair.
Seriously though, it's all about tradeoffs. I usually don't have time to build everything I want. Of course you need gold buildings. I just don't always have time for them.
As far as the value of gold buildings, it really depends. Did you open Liberty and get the pyramids? Just run with negative gpt and pillage-repair.
Seriously though, it's all about tradeoffs. I usually don't have time to build everything I want. Of course you need gold buildings. I just don't always have time for them.
As far as the value of gold buildings, it really depends. Did you open Liberty and get the pyramids? Just run with negative gpt and pillage-repair.
Pillage-repair-liberty-pyramids tactic is already ridiculous enough to provide you with constant unit healing...
But the notion that destroying something with economic value, and rebuilding the same exact thing tomorrow increases wealth consistently...
That's some deep economics theory there my brotha...
direblade99
Warlord
Pillage-repair-liberty-pyramids tactic is already ridiculous enough to provide you with constant unit healing...
But the notion that destroying something with economic value, and rebuilding the same exact thing tomorrow increases wealth consistently...
That's some deep economics theory there my brotha...
Bad economics though
Reminds me of the broken window fallacy, although its' not the same. It also makes me think of Nineteen-Eighty-Four
http://economics.about.com/od/output-income-prices/a/The-Broken-Window-Fallacy.htm
Anyway, is the pillage repair exploit usable in friendly territory or only in enemies? I'm also wondering how viable it is with worker maintenance and opportunity cost included?
Bad economics though
Reminds me of the broken window fallacy, although its' not the same. It also makes me think of Nineteen-Eighty-Four
http://economics.about.com/od/output-income-prices/a/The-Broken-Window-Fallacy.htm
Anyway, is the pillage repair exploit usable in friendly territory or only in enemies? I'm also wondering how viable it is with worker maintenance and opportunity cost included?
well, you get the unit healing always, with pillage-repair in enemy lands. I'm not sure about the gold plunder from pillage, maybe maybe not?
The thing about widespread usage of this exploit. You will not be able to consisntently do it with ALL improvements in enemy land. This is because you need protective ring around workers and you cannot stay within city bombardment range for too long without losing stuff.
GhostSalsa
Emperor
Units can't pillage in friendly territory.
Cromagnus
Deity
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When I do liberty dom, I am opportunistic about pillage repair healing. IE I don't plan on farming, so mostly I pillage heal repair in combat as I take cities. But, if I decide to raze a city, say one that has improvements and roads leading towards my next target, and I also have tons of workers, I do pillage heal repair with my injured units in the remains of that razed city. It's a profitable use of scouts after you're done scouting. It's a very profitable use of injured horsemen. Why heal in a city for 4 turns when you can pillage heal to full health in 2? But it really depends. Would I take units from the front that were needed? No. Would I maintain a higher unit supply and maintenance cost if I wasn't getting significant return? No. Do I love all the clicking per turn? No. So I don't plan on it anymore. But, if I hadn't spent a number of games taking it to the logical extreme by making pillage farms out of razed cities, I wouldn't have the experience to recognize when it's worth doing. It averages out to a net profit of 13gpt for 4 tiles in the classical era. The value goes down as unit maintenance costs go up.
I guess I have to amend my earlier statement about not building trade posts. Finally experienced what some of you had been saying about jungles. Had a few jungle/hill/river tiles and they produced some nice numbers with trade posts. Nothing compared to the 4f/2p or 2f/4p tiles but they do offer a better alternative than the 2f/2p tiles.
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