How often do you see this? Lol

I think Hyborem and the Mercurians both ought to enter the world with far more oomph than they do. It's funny that the mercurian gate wonder et al has pretty steep build requirements for an early wonder, hell it even costs you the entire city you built it in, yet they really never seem to have an impact on the playscape at all.
 
It's a bit circumstancial, if they are summoned during wartime early on they can both become major power factors since wars give them free units. I once had Armageddon hit and Hyborem ran rampage just after people lost their units and population.
 
it's generally going unbuilt in my games unless it's for laughs. the AI certainly never builds either one.

honestly, the mercurians and the infernals should be tied to the AC and enter the game from that.
 
I concur. They should start with more units, more gold, and especially more technologies, plus have more free population/buildings/culture in their cities and have many more traits than most leaders (This goes for Hyborem more than Basium, but both could use a boost). Tis would make them stronger, but more importantly would inflate their scores and thus make them more aggressive.

I think it would make sense for Hyborem to start with Infernal Pact, Malevolent Designs, Knowledge of the Ether, Necromancy, Elementaism, Summoning, Divine Right, Iron Working, Divine Essence, Ethereal Call, Feudalism, Fanaticism, Priesthood, Way of the Wicked, and Warfare. Basium should at least have Righteousness, Iron working, Divination, Priesthood, Way of the Wise, Warfare, and Divine Right.
 
They should have all the science that the civ who brought them into the game has.

The city that is given to them should also get a rebalancing of it's tiles as if it were a starting location for a normal civ. It's not like you're going to build the merc gate in your capitol, but wherever you build has to become the merc cap, and that's sad.
 
They already start with their summoner's tech, but their research rate starts out very low. Even if Hyborem starts with a tech lead over most other civs when he enters the world he tends to fall behind. I think that the Angels and Demons should start out knowing more than mere mortals, so they won't fall behind like that and turtle up.
 
I just had Hyborem summoned by an AI in my game last night. It really sucked because I had completely cleared my continent of AIs and whoever summoned him from across the ocean had him pop up in the middle of my lands (instead of the uninhabited desert to the south of me, let alone another continent).

Starting out surrounded made him a real pushover.
 
Cuteunit said:
it's generally going unbuilt in my games unless it's for laughs. the AI certainly never builds either one.
Click to expand...

Oh, but they can.

First time I encountered the demons, I had the AC off. I was the Svarts, on a continent with two or three other evil empires. I annihilated a bunch of Ashen Veil cities, and this message kept popping up about the afterlife. I just shrugged my shoulders, and assumed it was good. I ended up wiping out every city on the entire continent that wasn't mine.

Oh my, but that was a mistake. :cry:

After conquering my own continent, I sailed across the sea, and HOLY GOD. Some of their cities had over 30 pop, and had taken much of the continent. Practically the rest of the world was an unending hellscape. I gave up.
 
LOL! What a threat! Do they even need them? Demons care not for health. Hyborem blatently had it in his head to dish out some abuse to the local mortal populations :p

Al
 
Cuteunit said:
They should have all the science that the civ who brought them into the game has.

The city that is given to them should also get a rebalancing of it's tiles as if it were a starting location for a normal civ. It's not like you're going to build the merc gate in your capitol, but wherever you build has to become the merc cap, and that's sad.
Click to expand...

You could accomplish the same thing by giving their Palace building a couple of key resources (like Mithril and Reagents ;), or something a little more tame that complements them nicely). The palace could also give bonus food or production to allow them to catch up easier.
 
Currently buildings can only grant 3 resources, so free mithril or reagents would have to replace something else. Personally I think this should be changed so that a building can grant any number of any number of resources (so, for instance, palaces can grant 2 of their civ's representative sphere's mana and 1 of 2 others)
 
Maybe the angels and deamons could each have a unique building or national wonder that grants additional resources. The AI wouldn't even have to be taught to build it since the additional resources would automatically make it a high priority.
 
Ive seen the AI build them very often, most games Ive played. They dont usually pose a huge threat, but I can see they could If they went uncheced.
Why expanisve? Does that benifit them at all? More traits would make sense.
 
My personal favourite was seeing the message about Hyborem boasting about his truffles.
 
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