Happening this Thursday on 4/17: Firaxis Feature Feedback: Auto-Explore

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

What assumptions should be made about when someone turns on auto-explore? Are they still looking for places to settle? Looking for specific resources? Do they know all the civs that are close enough to attack quickly?

 

[Krikkit1]

What assumptions should be made about when someone turns on auto-explore? Are they still looking for places to settle? Looking for specific resources? Do they know all the civs that are close enough to attack quickly?

I would say No assumptions should be made... a person should feel safe (if not entirely optimized) if they put their first scouts on auto explore.
The goal should be , get discoveries and open up random parts of the map while not getting the scout killed (auto explore stops if there is a nonallied unit nearby)

 

[Timothy001]

For me, when set to auto-explore, I would like to set either, a set number of turns, or tiles moved, where the scout would pause and use their ability to search. So once set, the scout looks for goody huts, and attempts to reach the closest one. After each search, they will still attempt to reach the closest hut. If none are available, they head towards the area with the most hidden hexes. This continues until, it sights a hostile unit, has no more reachable tiles to unveil, or stopped.
During exploration era, I would also like to set if they will enter open ocean or not.

 

[user746383]

I agree, it shouldn't be some complicated behaviour tree. Just grab huts, explore the darkness. If I want something fancy I'll do it by hand, and "automatic fancy" is probably just going to do weird things and be unusable.

 

[UWHabs]

I agree, it shouldn't be some complicated behaviour tree. Just grab huts, explore the darkness. If I want something fancy I'll do it by hand, and "automatic fancy" is probably just going to do weird things and be unusable.

Yeah, if I'm auto-exploring, it's because I don't really care. If they find something, great. Otherwise just don't be dumb, and go down to the southern tip to search out a goody hut, then try to go to the North Pole for the next one.

To me, I'd just take a very basic algorithm:
-If there's a hut within 4 turns of me, go towards it (as long as no other scout is closer)
-If not, is there unexplored land near me? If so, clear the fog around it as much as you can
-If you're in a spot where the next move won't clear much fog, and you're not chasing a hut, then use the search function if that clears fog.
-Otherwise, if there is further afield unexplored lands, go out there, making sure to take a path with the least rough seas tiles to get there
-If you're not chasing a hut, heal

Will that be the most efficient run of them? Nah, definitely not. But scouting is one place where I'm happy with just something of an algorithm, because if i care, I'll do it manually, and it's one spot I don't mind a touch of micro if need be.

 

[Gedemon]

I wonder what was wrong with the AI code for it not being used from the start (with features like notification of danger for the human player coded later)

@notque did you notice something maybe ?

 

[stealth_nsk]

I wonder what was wrong with the AI code for it not being used from the start (with features like notification of danger for the human player coded later)

@notque did you notice something maybe ?

My guess is that it's too deeply rooted into the rest of AI decision logic. I.e. scouts could explore the direction where AI plans to settle.

 

[99-percent-sure]

One thing about exploring in Civ VII: I find the lack of possible rewards for finding natural wonders and the relatively limited benefits of goodie encampments/ruins/caves, etc., disappointing. Maybe I got spoiled by previous versions of Civ, but being able to sometimes snag a new technology or a valuable relic made looking for goodie huts and natural wonders a lot more fun. Remember finding Astronomy in a goodie hut on some barren coastal island in Civ IV, and it would leapfrog you ahead of the AI civs? Good times.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

One thing about exploring in Civ VII: I find the lack of possible rewards for finding natural wonders and the relatively limited benefits of goodie encampments/ruins/caves, etc., disappointing. Maybe I got spoiled by previous versions of Civ, but being able to sometimes snag a new technology or a valuable relic made looking for goodie huts and natural wonders a lot more fun. Remember finding Astronomy in a goodie hut on some barren coastal island in Civ IV, and it would leapfrog you ahead of the AI civs? Good times.

Nah I like them now. They're pretty varied and interesting without being too swingy. Popping a settler or whatever was too much.

 

[99-percent-sure]

Nah I like them now. They're pretty varied and interesting without being too swingy. Popping a settler or whatever was too much.

Maybe there ought to be a setting for that then, like there is with the severity of natural disasters.

 

[Seek]

One thing about exploring in Civ VII: I find the lack of possible rewards for finding natural wonders and the relatively limited benefits of goodie encampments/ruins/caves, etc., disappointing. Maybe I got spoiled by previous versions of Civ, but being able to sometimes snag a new technology or a valuable relic made looking for goodie huts and natural wonders a lot more fun. Remember finding Astronomy in a goodie hut on some barren coastal island in Civ IV, and it would leapfrog you ahead of the AI civs? Good times.

No disagreeing, but going 4-6 scouts to get a couple dozen goody huts first can rocket you through the early game. Over on @Paisley_Trees stream a number of us have been trying the wonder challenge (get all antiquity wonders on deity) and it’s really shown the power of scouts. One player reported getting the Great Stele finished in the early teens!

 

[evonannoredars]

One thing about exploring in Civ VII: I find the lack of possible rewards for finding natural wonders and the relatively limited benefits of goodie encampments/ruins/caves, etc., disappointing. Maybe I got spoiled by previous versions of Civ, but being able to sometimes snag a new technology or a valuable relic made looking for goodie huts and natural wonders a lot more fun. Remember finding Astronomy in a goodie hut on some barren coastal island in Civ IV, and it would leapfrog you ahead of the AI civs? Good times.

I sorta agree, I don't think they need to necessarily have powerful effects to be more fun (they can be powerful as is if you're beelining a tech/civic) but I'd welcome them having more varied possible effects from narrative events.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I have found, though, that Scouts in Civ VII, even more than in previous games like Civ's VI and V, are Fragile. If I build 2 - 3 Scouts, I may romp and stomp through discoveries for the first 15 - 20 turns or so, but by the 40th turn (less than half-way through Antiquity) at least half of them are gone: run down, shot down, or otherwise eliminated by hostile IPs or Bellicose AI Civs.

So it becomes a trade off, which Auto-Explore has to address: keeping the scouts around long enough to justify their existence and expense (which, if you try to buy them, is the same as Tier 1 Warriors or Slingers) while knowing that sooner or later they become virtually worthless since they cannot be upgraded at all and getting them in the first place requires using resources that could have generated a unit with actual offensive power and decent combat effects (save the Mayan 'special' scout, a Unique that simply complicates Scouts and Auto-Exploration even more).

Hordes of Scouts are, by the game's design apparently, a Dead End that only make sense if you really get lucky early with the goodies and other on-map bonuses. 'Getting lucky' in turn, requires maximum efficiency in using Scouts, which is not likely to be a part of Auto-Exploration.

 

[notque]

I wonder what was wrong with the AI code for it not being used from the start (with features like notification of danger for the human player coded later)

@notque did you notice something maybe ?

The pathing was really bad. Unusable I’d argue. They hugged the coast every time and would walk together.

Wouldn’t have been able to have it on from that perspective. There may have been others.

It was improved last patch, although there are still issues I think you’d need to fix before release.

 

[MutilationWave]

virtually worthless

I like to use scouts throughout the game. Set up one or two on a frontline attacking or defending in lookout tower mode to keep tabs on the enemy. You can use them as sighting for your artillery to fire over trees and mountains. Put them in tower mode on two sides of an island to monitor enemy naval movement. Best of all, you can pack one in an army commander that already has the four starting unit slots filled, and it will give you the extra movement for being packed while allowing you to deploy all your combat forces. Very useful for repositioning units or making sure the commander gets maximum experience. Unfortunately I believe they do take up a slot if you've upgraded to six slots.

In my current game on modern, with several discounts of course, they're 80 gold. 80 gold to see exactly where the enemy troops are? Yes please, even if it gets destroyed immediately.

EDIT- I just got an idea for a cheesy strategy. While building troops with production you could buy a scout every turn. Swarm the enemy with military units and scouts. They will waste time killing the scouts while you get perfect positioning or drown them in ranged attacks. Since they can occupy the same hex as a military unit they won't be in the way.

 

[Fletchers_Requiem]

Honestly I just want them to fix the horrendous pathing AI. I've lost way too many scouts because of how inconsistent zone of control tends to be around them.

 

[ccubed]

Don't have Civ 7 but have watched some videos. Is there a way to check your unit list? It seemed like that wasn't something in the game at least at launch. So if you set a Scout to auto explore, would there even be a way to find it and take it off auto explore without having to manually scan around the map and find the Scout in the current state of the game?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I like to use scouts throughout the game. Set up one or two on a frontline attacking or defending in lookout tower mode to keep tabs on the enemy. You can use them as sighting for your artillery to fire over trees and mountains. Put them in tower mode on two sides of an island to monitor enemy naval movement. Best of all, you can pack one in an army commander that already has the four starting unit slots filled, and it will give you the extra movement for being packed while allowing you to deploy all your combat forces. Very useful for repositioning units or making sure the commander gets maximum experience. Unfortunately I believe they do take up a slot if you've upgraded to six slots.

In my current game on modern, with several discounts of course, they're 80 gold. 80 gold to see exactly where the enemy troops are? Yes please, even if it gets destroyed immediately.

EDIT- I just got an idea for a cheesy strategy. While building troops with production you could buy a scout every turn. Swarm the enemy with military units and scouts. They will waste time killing the scouts while you get perfect positioning or drown them in ranged attacks. Since they can occupy the same hex as a military unit they won't be in the way.

My original post was a little over the top, I admit. Scouts are indispenible at the beginning of Exploration Age to get to Distant Lands before any military units can cross Deep Ocean. They are also handy to 'scout' ahead of a military force.

But, in Modern Age even the most rickety little biplane can do that better, and attack any enemy they find to soften them up.

I confess, I am at a loss why they didn't provide some kind of Upgrade Path for Scouts that provided them with more Exploration Age and Modern Age utillity.

For instance, most 'scouts' by the Exploration (post-Roman) period were Mounted - more mobility on the map, and maybe more defensive factor representing their ability to Run Away if threatened.

In Modern Age, they could start mounted but by about the middle of the Age upgrade to Armored Cars - fastest ground unit in the game, but very light on combat factors, and by the end of the Age (if anybody ever plays the game that far: I haven't managed to drag it out that much yet) the modern 'scouts' are all Stealthy - Special Forces and similar types who make it their business to Not Be Seen while targeting the enemy.

Lots of potential options to make Scouts more useful throughout the game and more likely to survive more than a sharp glance from a Modern Age or Exploration Age enemy.

I confess, using them as you describe to Spot and Die in Modern Age reminds me too much of US Army artillery Forward Observers in Vietnam (of which my college roommate was one), who had a life expectancy measured in Weeks, not Months, because everybody knew they were too dangerous to leave alive: anybody with a radio next to him would be targeted by every weapon within range. As a game mechanic, it becomes a bit Too Realistic for my taste . . .

 

[Willie5000]

Why not the same as in other civ games? Grab huts, head into the fog of war otherwise.

Because in other games, the automated scouts tend to run directly into barbarian encampments and get themselves killed.

 

[MutilationWave]

Don't have Civ 7 but have watched some videos. Is there a way to check your unit list? It seemed like that wasn't something in the game at least at launch. So if you set a Scout to auto explore, would there even be a way to find it and take it off auto explore without having to manually scan around the map and find the Scout in the current state of the game?

You can find your unit list in the bottom of the yields screen. It doesn't list them individually though, just says 5 Scouts for example. And inexplicably you can't click on them to find or select the unit. There are so many QOL features that were in the last three games missing. I made a thread about hotkeys. Civ 7 has about 10 and 5 of them are just about worthless. Versus like 30 hotkeys in earlier games.

I think whoever designed the keyboard input (and the UI) have never played a Civilization game in their lives. Maybe they didn't want PC version to have more controls than console, which is just gross.

To directly answer your question- No.