How should I play England?

[vanjito]

Four swordsmen, four trebuchets and two longbowmen? That's pretty hard on iron, isn't it?

Rather try with;

4 Longbows
4 Pikes
2 Trebs

You just need the pikes to 'hold the line' and advance slowly

 

[Bamboocha]

Thanks for the advice guys. I've started up a new game and I'll see where it'll go. What I do notice is that I have a hard time deciding when I should expand and where to settle cities, which is kind of a red thread in all of my games.

When I get stuck again, I'll upload a replay for you guys.

EDIT: I think I'm degrading to Emperor, it seems Immortal is still a bit too hard for me. I guess I got ahead of myself when I got the Caesar Augustus (number 1) ranking with Rome in my last Emperor game.

 

[Bamboocha]

I'm not finished but here's my latest game save.
It's Elizabeth, Emperor, Huge, Continents. It's 175 BC and I've just entered the medieval era.

London is in a prime location: it has access to the sea, is next to a river, has quite a few hills around it for production, and is rich in resources. Due to the fact that I've managed to build both the great lighthouse and colossus, there's quite some income from the capital and some fairly good Great Merchant generation. As somebody recommended earler in this thread I'm planning to go down the commerce tree to boost the income from my capital, and planning to plan as many custom houses on unused land near my capital as I can.

However, I'm somewhat worried about the locations of my other two cities. Nottingham is okay: nothing special, but some good production and access to some resources I already have. Not too great, but it gives me bargaining chips in diplomacy and a potential source of income. York, however, might be in a pretty bad location. I was desperately looking for a good location near the sea and figures getting Mount Fuji in my borders wasn't a bad plan.

I'm not too sure what victory I'm going for, but since I'm getting more gold than ever (compared to my other games), I might have a good shot at diplomacy. This doesn't mean I don't want to cut down the competition a little, if you know what I mean . I reckon the best time to do that is near the end of the medieval era/early renaissance, because it means I'll have my UU's to support my main body (most likely musketmen due to a disturbing lack of iron) in the attack. Hiawatha might be a good victim, but his lands are too far removed from mine.

So my questions for you are basically 'what did I do right', 'what did I do wrong' and 'what should I do from here on/ should I restart'?

P.S: You can probably see it for yourselves, but I've allied a maritime C.S. to improve the growth of my cities and get access to ivory, a luxury resource not found in my own lands.

 

[Veneke]

Hmm. Alright. Apologies if any of this reads as overly critical, that certainly isn't my intent. Also, I typically play Immortal on Standard sized maps so all that space you have to work with is throwing me a bit. That said, I think you should look at your city placement and development a bit more.

As you say London has the Colossus but the Fish immediately south of it has no fishing boats on it? It's also unable to work fish and pearl tiles that are inside its radius because culture hasn't expanded there. Those tiles should've been bought at the earliest opportunity. Without them, the power of the Colossus is effectively halved. Was there jungle on any of your plains tiles by the river? I spotted a few dotted at random on the map. Had they been by the river, Trading Posts would've done very well there. That might be a bit much to hope for though. I see where you're going with the National Epic, but the lack of a National College struck me as odd. The NC is one of the best science buildings in the early game and you can stunt your research potential significantly without it.

York is a bit confusing. There are two large iron deposits, four food resources and a pearls that could've been York's had it been founded on the hill 1 NW of the Banana just outside London's radius. That was the ideal location for York, even if it encountered a bit of overlap with London. As it stands, I assume it was settled where it was for the river? Regardless, York should have been farmed like no tomorrow and there are very few improvements or buildings there (esp. in comparison to Nottingham). Has it been doing something else that I'm not seeing, or is production there as bad as it looks? Oh, and the Mt. Fuji tile should be purchased asap, before Helsinki gets it.

Nottingham is better, like you say. It seems to be improved with Trading Posts though? Even on non-irrigated plains, Farms are better than TPs because there are comparatively more benefits from Food production than from Gold production. The only exception to this would be TPs on Jungle tiles. That said, there's a better city spot for Nottingham about 4 tiles N. You see where the encampment is? You can reach 2 fish, 2 wheat, 1 horse and 1 pearl from there. It would have weak production, but it'll generate a lot of food. A higher production city could have been built 1W of that mountain in the south getting Fish and Horses into the bargain. No access to the water unfortunately, but still decent.

Rio de Janeiro was a nice catch, but Helsinki may have been better. H has Iron and Dyes compated to RdJ's Ivory. H also has a better strategic position and has a mission for you to take out RdJ. So taking out RdJ would give you H as an ally and RdJ's Ivory.

Your tech work looks better, much better in fact. The worker techs followed by beelines for Iron early and Astronomy is good play for England. Archery and Trapping could've been skipped, but that's just nit-picking. One major point is that you should never research Astronomy when beelining for it, there are easier options available. A Great Scientist from the Liberty Finisher, Hagia Sophia or Porcelain Tower should bulb Astronomy while you're backfilling Techs after the beeline. On that point, Theology should always be researched before Compass - this will allow you more time in which to build HS. Not sure if HS has been built in your game yet or not, I forgot to check.

The Social Policies picks are curious. It's possible I'm missing something here. If you start Liberty its usually finished to get the free Great Person. If you are mixing and matching then the best combination in normal circumstances is Free Settler, Free Worker, Legalism, Monarchy, Landed Elite. Aristocracy and Oligarchy are generally weaker. Your position looks secure enough that Oligarchy could probably have been avoided. Aristocracy is grand as you went for some early game wonders, but why did you avoid Legalism?

Last point is that your scouting appears to have nose-dived after you met a few Civs. There's a few tiles south of London that are worth a look, and there's no reason why 1-2 scouts couldn't have been spared to fully explore the continent to the north.

* * *

As to what to do now though. First, buy the Mt. Fuji tile asap. If the point of York was to get Fuji, then you should make sure Helsinki doesn't get it. Second - take out RdJ and ally with Helsinki. Your economy is okay, not great. Check the demographics for GNP, you're leading the bottom half of the leaderboard, I reckon. I wouldn't say Diplomacy is out, but there's much less room for error on Standard speed than Marathon, so perhaps someone else may better comment on that.

If I were you, I'd focus on getting farms up on all the flat land and increasing your happiness. The Commerce opener and the Patronage tree are what you want for Diplomatic win, but the economy needs to be righted first. Change from researching Compass to Theology if the Hagia Sophia or Notre Dame are still available and try to nab both. If you can't leave it as is. Finish the beeline to Astronomy and then double-back for Construction and get Colloseums and the Circus Maximus up while you're off exploring. If you decide to try for Cultural instead, get Monarchy and Meritocracy asap. Regardless I'd probably focus on keeping the number of cities you have after you take RdJ. Except, perhaps, for a city on the grassland hill between York and London to grab those 2 iron deposits (6 and 2 respectively). Make sure though that it's on the grassland hill and not the plains one, you want to be able to build a stoneworks there.

Wall of text... fantastic. Anyway, hope this helps some.

 

[Bamboocha]

Hmm. Alright. Apologies if any of this reads as overly critical, that certainly isn't my intent. Also, I typically play Immortal on Standard sized maps so all that space you have to work with is throwing me a bit. That said, I think you should look at your city placement and development a bit more.

Don't worry about sounding overly critical, IMHO more critical is better because it gives me more tips on what to improve

As you say London has the Colossus but the Fish immediately south of it has no fishing boats on it? It's also unable to work fish and pearl tiles that are inside its radius because culture hasn't expanded there. Those tiles should've been bought at the earliest opportunity. Without them, the power of the Colossus is effectively halved.

Good point. I guess I focussed more on producing early wonders and buildings and completely forgot about buying tiles and building work boats. I'll get on it as soon as possible.

Was there jungle on any of your plains tiles by the river? I spotted a few dotted at random on the map. Had they been by the river, Trading Posts would've done very well there. That might be a bit much to hope for though.

As far as I can remember there were no jungle tiles near my city.

I see where you're going with the National Epic, but the lack of a National College struck me as odd. The NC is one of the best science buildings in the early game and you can stunt your research potential significantly without it.

The National College was one of the buildings I wanted to produce in the near future, but I guess now it will be delayed a bit because I'll have to build work boats. Next time, should I construct the NC first and the NE later?

York is a bit confusing. There are two large iron deposits, four food resources and a pearls that could've been York's had it been founded on the hill 1 NW of the Banana just outside London's radius. That was the ideal location for York, even if it encountered a bit of overlap with London. As it stands, I assume it was settled where it was for the river?

I mostly chose that tile over the one you suggested because your suggested tile has no access to any ocean tiles, meaning it won't profit from any commerce policies and I'll have to construct a trade rout towards it, costing me precious money.

Regardless, York should have been farmed like no tomorrow and there are very few improvements or buildings there (esp. in comparison to Nottingham). Has it been doing something else that I'm not seeing, or is production there as bad as it looks? Oh, and the Mt. Fuji tile should be purchased asap, before Helsinki gets it.

I'm quite conservative when it comes to buying tiles, because I consider it a waste of gold when I'll get it eventually anyway. But if you think I should buy it, I'll buy that tile asap. Sadly, York has few buildings because yes, Yorks production is quite horrible (it took me ages to pump out a worker). I was planning to farm all York river tiles though.

Nottingham is better, like you say. It seems to be improved with Trading Posts though? Even on non-irrigated plains, Farms are better than TPs because there are comparatively more benefits from Food production than from Gold production.

Hmm, I've heard both sides of the argument. Some people (on this very board) claim trading posts are better because you can use their gold to ally a maritime CS, improving your growth and getting additional benefits. Would you say this is correct or doubt that claim?

The only exception to this would be TPs on Jungle tiles. That said, there's a better city spot for Nottingham about 4 tiles N. You see where the encampment is? You can reach 2 fish, 2 wheat, 1 horse and 1 pearl from there. It would have weak production, but it'll generate a lot of food. A higher production city could have been built 1W of that mountain in the south getting Fish and Horses into the bargain. No access to the water unfortunately, but still decent.

Again, for Nottingham no access to any sea tiles was a deal breaker here. I'd like to have naval acces with all of my cities to:
-Benefit from Englands naval military advantages
-Construct a harbor, eliminating the need for expensive (rail)roads
-Benefit from the Merchant Navy social policy, giving naval cities extra production

Rio de Janeiro was a nice catch, but Helsinki may have been better. H has Iron and Dyes compated to RdJ's Ivory. H also has a better strategic position and has a mission for you to take out RdJ. So taking out RdJ would give you H as an ally and RdJ's Ivory.

Not trying to doubt the validity of your counsel, but are you sure Helsinki would've been better? They have iron in addition to a luxury resource, but they're also hostile which means their friendship points will degrade twice as fast, right? Nevertheless it seems a good idea to wait until my relationship with RdJ degenerates to the point where we're no longer friends, and then conquer their lands.

Your tech work looks better, much better in fact. The worker techs followed by beelines for Iron early and Astronomy is good play for England. Archery and Trapping could've been skipped, but that's just nit-picking.

I got archery from a ruin and researched trapping to get myself to civil service (and +1 for river tile farms).

One major point is that you should never research Astronomy when beelining for it, there are easier options available. A Great Scientist from the Liberty Finisher, Hagia Sophia or Porcelain Tower should bulb Astronomy while you're backfilling Techs after the beeline. On that point, Theology should always be researched before Compass - this will allow you more time in which to build HS. Not sure if HS has been built in your game yet or not, I forgot to check.

That does sound like a good plan. Very well, I'll switch it around and construct HS asap.

The Social Policies picks are curious. It's possible I'm missing something here. If you start Liberty its usually finished to get the free Great Person. If you are mixing and matching then the best combination in normal circumstances is Free Settler, Free Worker, Legalism, Monarchy, Landed Elite. Aristocracy and Oligarchy are generally weaker. Your position looks secure enough that Oligarchy could probably have been avoided. Aristocracy is grand as you went for some early game wonders, but why did you avoid Legalism?

In the beginning of the game I found two culture ruins and spent my first two policies on the tradition and liberty opener, boosting my culture output. After that I got the free settler and free worker, and aristocracy for my wonders. In retrospect oligarchy might not've been the best choice since I'm in such an isolated position, but it gives the AI an impression I have a sizeable army without having to spend money on upkeep.

As for avoiding Legalism, there are two reasons for it: first of all, I wanted to ensure all of my cities had at least a monument, so I'd get temples out of it. Secondly, since it applies to your first four cities and I only have three, I figured I should construct a fourth city to get the best out of it. That's pretty much why I delayed it.

Last point is that your scouting appears to have nose-dived after you met a few Civs. There's a few tiles south of London that are worth a look, and there's no reason why 1-2 scouts couldn't have been spared to fully explore the continent to the north.

This is something that happens in a lot of my games. Whenever my first scout gets killed by barbarians, I always doubt wether or not it's worth the time and production to produce a second scout, especially because all of the ruins in unexplored lands will most likely be taken by the other civs already by that point. Even then, I figured naval exploration might be a better alternative.

* * *

As to what to do now though. First, buy the Mt. Fuji tile asap. If the point of York was to get Fuji, then you should make sure Helsinki doesn't get it. Second - take out RdJ and ally with Helsinki. Your economy is okay, not great. Check the demographics for GNP, you're leading the bottom half of the leaderboard, I reckon. I wouldn't say Diplomacy is out, but there's much less room for error on Standard speed than Marathon, so perhaps someone else may better comment on that.

If I were you, I'd focus on getting farms up on all the flat land and increasing your happiness. The Commerce opener and the Patronage tree are what you want for Diplomatic win, but the economy needs to be righted first. Change from researching Compass to Theology if the Hagia Sophia or Notre Dame are still available and try to nab both. If you can't leave it as is. Finish the beeline to Astronomy and then double-back for Construction and get Colloseums and the Circus Maximus up while you're off exploring. If you decide to try for Cultural instead, get Monarchy and Meritocracy asap. Regardless I'd probably focus on keeping the number of cities you have after you take RdJ. Except, perhaps, for a city on the grassland hill between York and London to grab those 2 iron deposits (6 and 2 respectively). Make sure though that it's on the grassland hill and not the plains one, you want to be able to build a stoneworks there.

Wall of text... fantastic. Anyway, hope this helps some.

All sound advice which I will follow, but there's one thing that stands out for me: are you sure that culture might be a better victory to go for than diplomacy? It is said that culture is one of the hardest, and I missed the majority of the early wonders.

 

[Barth]

The National College was one of the buildings I wanted to produce in the near future, but I guess now it will be delayed a bit because I'll have to build work boats. Next time, should I construct the NC first and the NE later?

Absolutely the NC is better than the NE. You don't have a single building with a specialist slot yet, the NE is completely useless at the moment. The NC on the other hand would increase your current tech rate by a solid 40%.

I mostly chose that tile over the one you suggested because your suggested tile has no access to any ocean tiles, meaning it won't profit from any commerce policies and I'll have to construct a trade rout towards it, costing me precious money.

The tile he's suggesting does have ocean access.

Spoiler :

Hmm, I've heard both sides of the argument. Some people (on this very board) claim trading posts are better because you can use their gold to ally a maritime CS, improving your growth and getting additional benefits. Would you say this is correct or doubt that claim?

That sounds like a pretty suspect argument. Let's say it takes a 250 gold donation every 40 turns to hold a CS ally, which is pretty optimistic. That's over 6 gold per turn for +1 food. So it would take 6 trading posts to end up giving you 1 farm's worth of food. Maybe if you had a wide empire, say 10+ cities, then trading posts would end up being better than farms (assuming you could find and hold that many maritime CSs) but I just have a hard time seeing trading posts as a better option for growth than farms.

Again, for Nottingham no access to any sea tiles was a deal breaker here. I'd like to have naval acces with all of my cities to:
-Benefit from Englands naval military advantages
-Construct a harbor, eliminating the need for expensive (rail)roads
-Benefit from the Merchant Navy social policy, giving naval cities extra production

I'm starting to think that your save is different from mine? Again, the tile he's talking about does have sea access.

Spoiler :

Not trying to doubt the validity of your counsel, but are you sure Helsinki would've been better? They have iron in addition to a luxury resource, but they're also hostile which means their friendship points will degrade twice as fast, right? Nevertheless it seems a good idea to wait until my relationship with RdJ degenerates to the point where we're no longer friends, and then conquer their lands.

Again, I might have the wrong save here or something. Helsinki is irrational and Rio de Janeiro is hostile.

In the beginning of the game I found two culture ruins and spent my first two policies on the tradition and liberty opener, boosting my culture output. After that I got the free settler and free worker, and aristocracy for my wonders. In retrospect oligarchy might not've been the best choice since I'm in such an isolated position, but it gives the AI an impression I have a sizeable army without having to spend money on upkeep.

As for avoiding Legalism, there are two reasons for it: first of all, I wanted to ensure all of my cities had at least a monument, so I'd get temples out of it. Secondly, since it applies to your first four cities and I only have three, I figured I should construct a fourth city to get the best out of it. That's pretty much why I delayed it.

You're such a huge distance away from any other civs that there's no way Oligarchy was the better choice. Even if you don't get full benefit from Legalism I don't think it's worth it to delay getting to Monarchy and Landed Elite. Assuming that's the path you want to follow though; it again seems like you're unfocused. What are your eventual plans for your social policies?

 

[Veneke]

A pity about the Jungle tiles, but that was a bit of a long shot. Take what I say about the NE with a pinch of salt (to accompany the carton going with the whole post) as I've built it all of once since I got the game. Most of the time, I'd get the NC as a matter of priority, usually before I found my second city to keep costs down. You might miss out on a good city because of it, but the extra science imo is worth it.

I may not have been entirely clear with regards to York's placement, I was talking about the plains hill tile 1 NW of the Banana where it will have access to the ocean. Going from York it is 3 tiles E and 1 SE. Buying tiles is, nearly always, a waste. You're right there. This situation though I believe calls for it. Mediocre production is never good, but high pop cities can usually compensate by purchasing what they require. Doesn't do you much good at the moment, unfortunately.

I probably should've mentioned the TP vs Farm argument, and you're right to bring me up on it. It's actually not something I have a lot of experience with, but my brief dalliance with TPs left me unimpressed. Maybe I did it wrong, dunno...

Nottingham is beside the ocean from where I suggested, so you wouldn't be sacrificing that. The second city beside the mountain is a bit more iffy.

I'd have to load it up again, but isn't RdJ Hostile and Helsinki Irrational? I could have that wrong, but even so the gain from Helsinki is so much better and the influence with which that influence can be gained so easy that Helsinki wins out. Well, at least it would do for me. Of course though, you should wait until your existing influence degrades (unless an AI tries to take it first).

Fair enough on Civil Service, I'd have delayed it for a quicker Theology for the HS but with a plains start I suppose CS does become more valuable.

I was unaware the AI counted Oligarchy, even still though. Legalism applies retroactively. In other words, it'll give your fourth city a free cultural improvement even if you pick Legalism before you found your fourth city. Is it worth delaying Legalism to leverage the most advantage from it? Possibly, but only provided you're taking a Social Policy that you were going for anyway.

Exploration is key to Civ 5, especially with the inability to trade maps. Build a scout, maybe even two. You can save them for exploration post-Astronomy if needs be, but it's very difficult to make good choices regarding city placement, wars or whatever without knowledge of the land and to do that, you need to scout.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that Cultural was the way to go. It's very difficult for me to judge where, exactly, you are in the game as I never play anything other than Marathon with Standard maps, but I wouldn't suggest switching to a Cultural victory unless someone else who knows those settings says its possible. Ultimately my guess is that if you can increase your GNP towards the upper tier (say 4+) and focus on creating gold/saving it, you should be okay for a diplomatic victory. I think.

 

[Bamboocha]

Ah, Barth! Thanks for providing screenshots and correcting my mistakes!

Thanks for all of the advice everybody, I think I've seen what I've done wrong (mostly put my cities on locations without all that much resources). Do you think this game is worth finishing or should I start from scratch?
If I'm going to restart, I think I'll go for small continents instead of continents to make sure I'm not completely isolated.

EDIT: No response? I suppose I'll keep this file then, but restart anyway. This time I'll make sure to found my cities on better locations.

 

[Bamboocha]

I've decided to start a new game with Elizabeth, on King this time (because it seems I still don't master a lot of the games basics) and I've taken all given advice to heart. You can see the attached game file below, and I'd like to have another review and some advice if possible.

Because I'm a bit insecure in my skills, I've decided to spend the first part of the game building up my empire rather than expanding/waging wars. My cities have great growth, a pretty nice production rate and some good resources. Wheat is abudant, giving me extra bang out of my granaries, and there are heaps upon heaps of wine. Sadly, this is almost the only luxury resource within my borders, but I've been able to sell off a lot of it for some gold, enabling me to rushbuy buildings or units and giving me trading chips for other resources. If I were to give an opinion of my own game, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.

There are, however, some problems. First of all my wine isn't as useful as it used to be, because it seems more of the known civs have found their own source, leaving me with a useless pile. I don't know any method to regain my powerful market position save for conquering wine farming cities and puppeting then/replacing them with my own.

This brings me to my second problem: while I'm the leading civ in the game, my empire is quite small. I'm on the verge of unlocking my two UU's (longbowmen and ship of the line) and now seems as good a moment as any to start expanding (in both gameplay terms and historical accuracy). Bismarck has declared war on me and I've fought a war with the Romans already so I can expect them to invade me at any moment, so I have targets but no army. What do you recommend me to do to quickly field an army worthy of Mordor England?

Another small thing is that, as you can see on the map, there's two islands north of Bucharest. I'm planning to rushbuy a settler and found a new city on one of them because they seem like they're a good city location and it gives me a fall out base in my war against Bismarck. What do you guys think of this plan?

In short, I'd love it if you would give me your opinion on the following:
1. What have I done right/wrong?
2. How do I regain my strong market position?
3. What should I do to quickly field an army?
4. Is it worth the trouble using that army to expand?
5. Should I settle north of Bucharest?
6. What is your general advice on how to continue this game?

 

[Barth]

Harbors only form trade routes if there's an uninterrupted path through the water between the city and another city that's already connected to the trade route. So the harbors you're building in York and Hastings are useless.

Why is London building a mint? You only have 1 source of silver and no gold so at the most it's worth 2 gpt. Compare that to a market that has the same production cost, provides 2 gpt without requiring a certain tile to be worked, and it provides a 25% gold bonus on top of that. A mint is strictly inferior to a market for London.

Your wine situation is fine, Rome is the only civ you've met that has its own source. You're already selling it to Siam and the Aztecs, and Persia and Germany will both trade for it. You also have some open borders and silver to sell.

You need to scout more. There's at least one civ, the Iroquois, on your continent that you can see but haven't made contact with yet. That would be another civ to offload your wine onto.

If you want to build an army then improve your production tiles, build production buildings, and build some units. London can get to somewhere around 35 hammers, York to 30, and Nottingham and Hastings to 25-ish. You'll be able to churn out longbows in 4 turns, which you can use to run over Rome (Germany is pretty far away to try waging a war against) and take their iron. Though personally I feel like science would make more sense. You're already number 1 in tech using only 2 half-power RAs (the PT is still available too) and have no universities. Going hard into science you would probably reach modern before any AI got to industrial. But you seem to prefer conquest, and if you go for it the AI won't be able to stop you.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I would kill to spawn in such spot. Great fertile and most importantly ungrabbed land! It really hurts my eyes to see it unsettled.
But seriously, you can easily expand and grow, although Liberty would be much more reasonable given such dirt. Perfect for ICS. But regardless, you have all the happiness in the world. Use it. There is a great spot to the north with spices, you currently sell yours, another spot to the south next to Romans and at least 2 more next to Persia. They both are pathetic in every aspect, there is no reason to be worried about settling close to their borders. Besides, Siam can be easily bought into war with August. I wouldn't bother to pay him, my guess he'll DoW pretty soon. Hence, forget about Germany and settle your own great land. Bismark already is willing to make peace. Once you kick out some units he'll pay you for this.

Honestly, Barth mentioned most of the things. Your science isn't fantastic. You should have universities with specialists and PT by now. PT is extremely important on larger maps. Even if you chose to fight some of your neighbors, you'll still be able to sign RA's with several others. Connect Hastings to London via road, cities settled on inland sea cannot be connected via harbor. York is fine, BTW.
Also when playing continents maps Astronomy should be your number 1 tech priority. It's almost always worth to burn GS to get it earlier. Even more on huge map.
And scouting is crucial. Scouting with trireme isn't enough. If your scout got killed, build/buy another one until most of your continent is explored and you met everybody you can.

Land is slightly undeveloped, especially around Hastings, which slows its growth. Try to avoid working unimproved tiles when possible. At this stage of the game workers should be prioritized to improve newly founded cities.

Cash flow is low, and will be even lower when peace treaty with Rome expires. Harbors and expansion will take care of that. Next time try to establish trade network much earlier. Build markets asap. Sell the horses. You don't use them anyway.

Military-wise not surprisingly you're doing fine. It doesn't matter you actually don't have any military, AI doesn't either. If you get Machinery and Steel and upgrade your 4 guys they'll kick some serious butts. You can also ally Genoa to get more iron. But frankly, I wouldn't bother. I'd expand and pump beakers. Hard! Given standard speed and huge map domination game can be really really tiresome. Since you don't have tons of puppets and well oiled war machine, there is no point in starting conquest now. Wait for powerful fast units. Or at least artillery. If you expand and grow your tech lead will be overwhelming by then, cities will fall easily. Or you can decide to go science/diplo. Right now all options are open.

 

[Veneke]

Some quick initial comments:

Well, the harbour in York isn't useless to be fair. Although it is unusual to build a harbour in the outlying cities first and the capital after.

Other than that, I agree entirely with The Pilgrim and Barth, especially so on the Liberty line. There are acres of territory around you to settle and it's all unclaimed. That could be relatively normal but your high happiness might suggest otherwise. Same with scouting. It's better, but still not quite as good as it could be.

I'm kinda a nit-picker on city placement but the cities you have at the moment seem are pretty well placed. Nottingham, however, could have been settled 1 hex west. It would still have access to the ocean but have more land and access to 1 more workable wine tile and 1 more horse tile. When I was looking I thought I spotted a better city place for York 1 hex NE and 1 hex E, but for some reason I'm not 100% sure about that. This is all very minor though and shouldn't detract from what is quite a well thought out, if somewhat conservative, settlement pattern.

In terms of victory condition, Science looks good if you go after it hard. Is there a reason why you didn't beeline for Astronomy? You appear to have gone for a much more broad approach to techs than you did in the previous game. That said, Science lends itself to Domination if you get bored so your options are open.

Military looks grand, but if you want to take the fight to Germany and have some cash lying around, Bucharest could prove to be a pain for Bismarck.

That all said, you appear to be doing rather well.

 

[Barth]

Yea I'm dumb, the harbor in York will work.

 

[thectexperience]

The lack of a financial aspect to England is a bit surprising. Has anyone else noticed though that all of the European factions have two unique units rather than a unique unit and unique building? I'm not sure whether it's coincidence or a conscious decision, but it always struck me as odd.

It's not odd -- the whole game is based on a European idea of what "Civilization" is. That means that every single building is a European building, making it pretty tough to find a special unique building for European civ. Russia with the Krepost is the exception; culturally-speaking Russia is not entirely European

In contrast, with Civs like the Iroquois for example theyve taken a generic Amerindian building (the longhouse) and turned it into something its not (a workshop) for the sake of gameplay.

I have no problem with any of this by the way, but it's worth being aware of

 

[Bamboocha]

I'm back again. Not a whole lot has changed since the last time, but I think the discovery of a new continent justifies asking for some extra advice.

As for the advice you've already given me, I've tried to follow most of it. I'm building some more science buildings to stay relevant and I tried to build the Porcelain Tower (but was robbed of it in the last 5 turns of construction). I also went north to found Canterbury and grabbed myself another spice spot. I discovered machinery and made some longbowmen.

However, the renaissance dawned, which would prove to change everything. I sent a caravel across the ocean to explore uncharted lands and discovered the Monghols, Greeks and French, all three of them worthy opponents, stronger than those I share my continent with. I was able to pacify them for now by selling them my wine. I also happened upon an uninhabited strip on land wih two fomerly unknown luxury resources, ivory and incense, and iron all neatly packed together. This seemed like a perfect place to settle and then the idea of creating a colonial empire was formed in my mind. I sent three longbowmen, a swordsman (who would later become a longswordsman) and my great general to my new colony and rushbought two musketmen once my troops had arrived there. On the main continent I've also produced some tririremes, awaiting the discovery of navigation so they can be upgraded to ships of the line.

The Monghol lands seem to be rich in ivory and horses, so conquering it could give my economy quite a boost.

I won't bother you with any other unneeded details, so I'll make my questions short:
-Would it be a good idea to attack Genghis with my current colonial army?
-Are there any other places where I can found new cities?
-What should I do from here in the technology department?
-Once I get to rifling, my longbowmen will be able to upgrade themselves to riflemen, losing their ranged combat ability. Should I upgrade them as soon as possible, or allow them to remain 'obsolete' for a while?
-What other general advice/criticism do you have for me?

As always, you can find the gamefile below.

 

[Veneke]

1. Yes. Mongolia has 5 archers and 5 of their Keshiks around Quebec and (judging with some scouting with the caravel), another 5-10 units scattered around the place. The poin though is that you're a tech era ahead, although the lack of good defensive terrain is a problem. Your 3 Longbows, 2 Muskets and Longswordsman should be sufficient to take out their major force. If it were me, I'd prefer to have another 2 Longbows and another musket. Some people will tell you that you lack siege equipment - don't worry about that. Longbows need experience asap for Logistics and the other high tier promotions, and once they get Logistics they'll be grant for taking cities.

2. Honestly, if you take all of Mongolia then you shouldn't need for any more cities. If you want to stick with the overseas empire theme, then there is one good spot 1 tile west of the hill of the small snowed in island to the south of Mongolia. That can reach all of the resources on/near that island.

3. Navigation, without a shadow of a doubt. Although I am curious as to why you went for Acoustics. After Navigation get Rifling. At that point if you don't have a definite victory condition in mind, you need to settle on one.

4. This is definitely down to personal preference. Longbows will always do at least one damage and with three range they're reasonably good until Artillery start showing up. There are two important points here, Logistics and March carry over during the upgrade and Longbows will gain experience quicker than Riflemen because they won't have to stop to heal and can easily bombard a city from range for as long as they like for XP.

5. The game is shaping up rather nicely. I'm assuming you're going for Mercantilism next for the discount on purchases? If you're going for the diplo VC, you need significantly better gold. A good rule of thumb is to have a stockpile of 1000 gold for every CS you already have allied to you and 2000 gold for every CS that you don't. At least, that's what I've always operated for Diplo and its worked so far.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Took a brief look.

Science still could be better. Assign scientists on universities slots. They are built for reason.
Sell spices, iron, open borders.
Rush two additional longbows in Coventry.

Genghis has 8 keshiks. This means if you pillage 4 horses near his capital north from your longbow, all of them will suffer 50% penalty. Take Turfan with another 4 horses and Mongols are over.

Veneke is right about VC. At this point you have to decide. Anyway, I'd pump science regardless. Pick Mercantilism next and Rationalism after that. Leaving Commerce finisher for later. Then finish the left side of Rationalism. Try to boost culture to be able to get Scientific Revolution in time. After taking out Mongols trade multiple incense for unique luxes and happiness-wise you're set. Since you don't have PT, RA output is limited to 75%, yet it's better than nothing. Way too many opponents left to skip this opportunity. Start signing RA's and generating GS's.

Maybe you can go and bug Hiawatha and take his capital with PT. If you're lucky and it's coastal (scouting still sucks, sorry), that shouldn't be too hard with SotL's. Bismark already hates him. He'll help.

If you go for science, you don't need to do more than listed above. Sit back, TP Mongolia, grow and manipulate the median. You'll win. For diplo try to get resource revealing techs first and sell, sell, sell. Don't bother to ally CS's yet.

Domination is a bit trickier. I don't think there is a good reason for fighting with Renaissance units. I'd research towards Dynamite and start killing people on the main land, since they are so weak, while staying friendly with everybody in 'the new world'. To deal with them I'd aim for tanks+nukes or even stealth bombers. Land wars across multiple fronts are very tiresome. But that's me. Some may like it. In case you don't, if you build Brandenburg Gate + barracks + armory + military academy you'll get stealth bombers with logistics on the spot. They will do the job very quickly. 30 or so turns and game is over.

I'd still settle 2-3 cities between you and Persia after finishing Mongols. You'll see the happiness situation, but should be alright. Settling another city on new continent isn't necessary.

Things look good.

 

[Bamboocha]

1. Yes. Mongolia has 5 archers and 5 of their Keshiks around Quebec and (judging with some scouting with the caravel), another 5-10 units scattered around the place. The poin though is that you're a tech era ahead, although the lack of good defensive terrain is a problem. Your 3 Longbows, 2 Muskets and Longswordsman should be sufficient to take out their major force. If it were me, I'd prefer to have another 2 Longbows and another musket. Some people will tell you that you lack siege equipment - don't worry about that. Longbows need experience asap for Logistics and the other high tier promotions, and once they get Logistics they'll be grant for taking cities.

2. Honestly, if you take all of Mongolia then you shouldn't need for any more cities. If you want to stick with the overseas empire theme, then there is one good spot 1 tile west of the hill of the small snowed in island to the south of Mongolia. That can reach all of the resources on/near that island.

3. Navigation, without a shadow of a doubt. Although I am curious as to why you went for Acoustics. After Navigation get Rifling. At that point if you don't have a definite victory condition in mind, you need to settle on one.

4. This is definitely down to personal preference. Longbows will always do at least one damage and with three range they're reasonably good until Artillery start showing up. There are two important points here, Logistics and March carry over during the upgrade and Longbows will gain experience quicker than Riflemen because they won't have to stop to heal and can easily bombard a city from range for as long as they like for XP.

5. The game is shaping up rather nicely. I'm assuming you're going for Mercantilism next for the discount on purchases? If you're going for the diplo VC, you need significantly better gold. A good rule of thumb is to have a stockpile of 1000 gold for every CS you already have allied to you and 2000 gold for every CS that you don't. At least, that's what I've always operated for Diplo and its worked so far.

1. Is being a tech era ahead good enough? From what I've heard around these forums Keshiks are game winning units, strong enough to remain relevant until tanks are introduced to the field of battle.

5. IS HAVING THAT MUCH GOLD EVEN POSSIBLE? How should I get my hands on that much?

Took a brief look.

Science still could be better. Assign scientists on universities slots. They are built for reason.

Is that really the best thing to do? I already have my merchant slots filled, and filling my scientist slots would mean having less laborers on the land, hampering my growth and gold output.

Sell spices, iron, open borders.
Rush two additional longbows in Coventry.

I'll do that, sounds like a good thing.

Genghis has 8 keshiks. This means if you pillage 4 horses near his capital north from your longbow, all of them will suffer 50% penalty. Take Turfan with another 4 horses and Mongols are over.

....That's smart.

Veneke is right about VC. At this point you have to decide. Anyway, I'd pump science regardless. Pick Mercantilism next and Rationalism after that. Leaving Commerce finisher for later. Then finish the left side of Rationalism. Try to boost culture to be able to get Scientific Revolution in time. After taking out Mongols trade multiple incense for unique luxes and happiness-wise you're set. Since you don't have PT, RA output is limited to 75%, yet it's better than nothing. Way too many opponents left to skip this opportunity. Start signing RA's and generating GS's.

Is science really so important it justifies taking rationalism even without going for a science victory? I'm just curious.

Maybe you can go and bug Hiawatha and take his capital with PT. If you're lucky and it's coastal (scouting still sucks, sorry), that shouldn't be too hard with SotL's. Bismark already hates him. He'll help.

I'm not sure... I could do that after my colonial war, but does the porcelain tower, a single world wonder, justify taking a huge diplo hit with not only Hiawatha, but perhaps other world powers?

If you go for science, you don't need to do more than listed above. Sit back, TP Mongolia, grow and manipulate the median. You'll win. For diplo try to get resource revealing techs first and sell, sell, sell. Don't bother to ally CS's yet.

Domination is a bit trickier. I don't think there is a good reason for fighting with Renaissance units. I'd research towards Dynamite and start killing people on the main land, since they are so weak, while staying friendly with everybody in 'the new world'. To deal with them I'd aim for tanks+nukes or even stealth bombers. Land wars across multiple fronts are very tiresome. But that's me. Some may like it. In case you don't, if you build Brandenburg Gate + barracks + armory + military academy you'll get stealth bombers with logistics on the spot. They will do the job very quickly. 30 or so turns and game is over.

I'd still settle 2-3 cities between you and Persia after finishing Mongols. You'll see the happiness situation, but should be alright. Settling another city on new continent isn't necessary.

Things look good.

Thanks for the advice, I think I can do some things with that.

 

[Barth]

1. Is being a tech era ahead good enough? From what I've heard around these forums Keshiks are game winning units, strong enough to remain relevant until tanks are introduced to the field of battle.

That's for human players. The AI is as bad with Keshiks as it is with everything else, you don't need to worry.

Is that really the best thing to do? I already have my merchant slots filled, and filling my scientist slots would mean having less laborers on the land, hampering my growth and gold output.



Is science really so important it justifies taking rationalism even without going for a science victory? I'm just curious.



I'm not sure... I could do that after my colonial war, but does the porcelain tower, a single world wonder, justify taking a huge diplo hit with not only Hiawatha, but perhaps other world powers?

Science is what drives this game. If you have the tech lead you have stronger units, better cities, earlier access to wonders, everything. All non-cultural victories should work their scientist slots pretty much always, you should always try to get the PT unless you're warmongering so hard that you literally can't sign any research agreements, and you should always get Rationalism for at least science and diplomatic victories. And if you don't need the happiness from Piety you should do it for domination victories too, again unless you're such a warmonger that you can't sign any RAs at all. If you've never experienced the power boost that you get from finishing a wave of RAs, getting Scientific Revolution, building Oxford, and bulbing 6-8 GSs to burn through the Industrial era in under 5 turns, you're missing out. I actually usually abandon my games at this point because winning is a foregone conclusion with that kind of lead.

 

[Bamboocha]

@Barth: Your post kind of leads me to a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time: a few patches ago an RA just gave you a free tech, but what does it do now?