How to Best Use Great Scientists in SE

[Runner]

I'm playing as Peter right now on Monarch. I'm running Caste System, Representation and Pacifism (kinda funny though - I just crushed Isabella and took her Jewish Holy City).

Moscow is running 7-8 scientists specialist plus 2 - 3 settled scientists and have built an academy.

I am about to finish researching education (popped it half way there with my last GS).

I have not settled GSs anywhere except in the capital given that I plan to build Oxford there.

My one GP was settled in my production/commerce city (cottages on FPs, enough farms to utilize 4 hills in fat cross).

This is my first attempt at a SE. Does this sound reasonable or cringe-worthy?

 

[Plex]

academies lost value as the game goes on. i'd think that around education you could probably still get more benefit out of popping it for an academy in your second highest science output city. I almost never turn my GPs into specialists (i think that's what you're referring to?). just sit down with a pencil and paper and figure it out mathematically...

Academy - 50% of current science output x turns remaining (note that although this is a little less now this can increase alot over time)

Specialist - base science x modifiers x turns remaining

Bulb - it'll tell you right on the bulb

the academy usually works out to be best. sounds like you're on track though

 

[bluedevil99]

I'm playing as Peter right now on Monarch. I'm running Caste System, Representation and Pacifism (kinda funny though - I just crushed Isabella and took her Jewish Holy City).

Moscow is running 7-8 scientists specialist plus 2 - 3 settled scientists and have built an academy.

I am about to finish researching education (popped it half way there with my last GS).

I have not settled GSs anywhere except in the capital given that I plan to build Oxford there.

My one GP was settled in my production/commerce city (cottages on FPs, enough farms to utilize 4 hills in fat cross).

This is my first attempt at a SE. Does this sound reasonable or cringe-worthy?

You sound like you're doing pretty well actually. Couple of points, since I only recently started going SE myself:

1. Consider moving your capitol to the production/commerce city you refer to, as it will be better able to take advantage of Beauracracy.

2. Whether I settle GSs or build academies depends on what kind of victory I'm going for. If domination, I'll build 1-2 academies MAX and settle the rest I don't use for bulbing. If I'm going space, I'll build more academies as they really help with the transition to CE. Many people assume building academies late is a bad idea, but with emancipation, free speech, and printing press, you'd be surprised how many multipliers you need to make a +9 beaker GS beat an academy in a late game cottage city. In either case I generally won't start mass settling unless I'm significantly ahead on tech or past Physics (bulbing physics is almost getting a free tech).

3. Absolutely always settle GSs in the city you plan to put Oxford. But I tend to favor putting Oxford in my commerce-oriented capital rather than a specialist city, as the Beauracracy bonus offsets the hammer cost of Oxford and by the time I get Oxford up, I'm either pretty close to transitioning to a CE for space, or close to wrapping up domination.

 

[madscientist]

If you are Peter and plan to take the space victory route you probably want more academies since his UB provides 2 free scientists to each lab (beeline for computers). Are the 2-3 settled scientists settled great people or 2 free scientists from the great library?

 

[Dnomal]

Make an academy.

Settling scientists i all well and good, but an acedmy does so much more, extra research and more culture win win win. I uually spend one or two GS's on academies and then use the rest to lightbulb, use the tech advantage to build an advanced army, and go on a conquering spree, works for me.

P.S lightbulbing Physics i always a good idea, spend one scientist, and get another, and a tech! Great fun!

 

[futurehermit]

I would say academy is a good idea in your super science city. But I wouldn't settle. Lightbulbing early on is too powerful monarch+ On lower skill levels if I land pyramids, which is pretty easy to do, I would settle because you're going to be self-researching everything.

 

[Runner]

If you are Peter and plan to take the space victory route you probably want more academies since his UB provides 2 free scientists to each lab (beeline for computers). Are the 2-3 settled scientists settled great people or 2 free scientists from the great library?

2 settled and 2 from GL. I popped an early GE from Pyramids and built the GL right after Lit.

 

[Runner]

I found out (the hard way)that settling GSs in the capitol means that you are married to bureaucracy.

I had the science slider set at 20% and could keep up in techs with everyone else. Thanks to a weak naval invasion from Mehmed I decided to switch to Police State, Nationhood and Theocracy. Holy cow! Economics went from a 6 - 7 turn research requirement to 18 right away. Ouch.

I guess if I am going to switch out from bureaucracy then I need to lay down some cottages quickly.

 

[pigswill]

What year are you up to in the game?

If you're going for a military victory then having a superscience capital with bureaucracy, academy and oxford means that all your other cities can focus on producing military.

 

[Runner]

What year are you up to in the game?

If you're going for a military victory then having a superscience capital with bureaucracy, academy and oxford means that all your other cities can focus on producing military.

1700s right now. I have Cossacks, rifles and grenadiers.

 

[Plex]

P.S lightbulbing Physics i always a good idea, spend one scientist, and get another, and a tech! Great fun!

I strongly disagree with this. Why would you expend a resource to get that same resource in return? It almost completely defeats the purpose to get to physics first if you have to bulb a scientist to get there. Second of all you're never going to bulb 100% of physics anyway. at best you'll knock off a couple of turns of research, which in the grand scheme isn't really worth it. the only advantage you get it that someone else doesn't get a free scientist.

 

[Runner]

I strongly disagree with this. Why would you expend a resource to get that same resource in return? It almost completely defeats the purpose to get to physics first if you have to bulb a scientist to get there.

Bulbing: 1 GS and Physics
Not bulbing: 1 GS

Bulbing dominates not bulbing for all possible uses of 1 GS.

 

[Dnomal]

I strongly disagree with this. Why would you expend a resource to get that same resource in return? It almost completely defeats the purpose to get to physics first if you have to bulb a scientist to get there. Second of all you're never going to bulb 100% of physics anyway. at best you'll knock off a couple of turns of research, which in the grand scheme isn't really worth it. the only advantage you get it that someone else doesn't get a free scientist.

I do not understand this reasoning.

You start off with one GS, and you end up with another GS and a tech, maybe you'll have to have a turn on two researching, but that's the only "loss" (you'd have to spend that if you didn't lighbulb anyways.

You can then use that GS to build an academy/Settle w/e u want with it, you don't really lose.

Why would you expend a resource to get the same resource?

Why wouldn't you expend one resource to get another and a tech!

 

[LuckyAC]

Researching it on your own: 2 GSs and a tech

 

[Mango]

I imagine his point is that if you're in position to bulb physics for the GS you could probably just spend the extra turns self-researching it and get another GS out of it.

Bulbing = 1 GS + Physics + 2-3 turns researching

Not bulbing = 2 GS + Physics + 6-9 turns researching

So in the end it's a question of whether you'd trade those extra turns for a scientist. If you can drop research to 0% and land yourself several thousand gold then I'd say it's worth it since you can then turn around and use that gold to upgrade military or gold rush some important buildings. In that case:

Bulbing = 1 GS + Physics + 6-9 turns researching + several thousand gold

It really depends on what you want to do. I'd say however that by the time you get physics you don't want to be settling those GSs or building academies as physics is too close to the endgame (so it really isn't worth it). So the way I see it, there really is no reason NOT to bulb that far into the game.

 

[Preacherman]

I found out (the hard way)that settling GSs in the capitol means that you are married to bureaucracy.

I had the science slider set at 20% and could keep up in techs with everyone else. Thanks to a weak naval invasion from Mehmed I decided to switch to Police State, Nationhood and Theocracy. Holy cow! Economics went from a 6 - 7 turn research requirement to 18 right away. Ouch.

I guess if I am going to switch out from bureaucracy then I need to lay down some cottages quickly.

I don't understand your reasoning on this. Bureaucracy gives 50% to commerce, a settled GS gives only science and is not multiplied by bureaucracy. Were you running Represention by any chance? That would explain the drop in research.

Bulbing: 1 GS and Physics
Not bulbing: 1 GS

Bulbing dominates not bulbing for all possible uses of 1 GS.

Only if you can't get Physics first by regular research.
Researching Physics normally: 2 GS and Physics.

Edit: I'm really too slow

 

[Plex]

I do not understand this reasoning.

You start off with one GS, and you end up with another GS and a tech, maybe you'll have to have a turn on two researching, but that's the only "loss" (you'd have to spend that if you didn't lighbulb anyways.

You can then use that GS to build an academy/Settle w/e u want with it, you don't really lose.

Why would you expend a resource to get the same resource?

Why wouldn't you expend one resource to get another and a tech!

if you spend a GS to get phsyics first then all you're really doing is stopping the AI for getting a great scientist, when if fact you might very well get it first anyway. you're getting that tech anyway, and it doesn't give you anything else but a prerequisite for a bunch of more useful techs that you will actually make a real difference if you bulb.

imho, an academy is almost always a better option for a bulb anway. there's still more than enough time in the game at this point to reap more beakers from an academy than a bulb. so either you get 2 academies churing out a ton of science or save 5 or 6 turns of research and take out an insurance policy on the AI not getting a GS that they probably won't utilize to its full potential on they off chance that they beat you to it. i'd much rather build research for a few turns instead if i'm really worried about not getting physics first.

 

[uberfish]

GS lightbulbing is done for three main reasons

1) getting valuable techs for trade bait, philosophy is the classic one here
2) when reaching a key tech ASAP (liberalism, chemistry) provides enough of a payoff that it's worth sacrificing a few longterm beakers
3) when the game will end soon enough that an academy wouldn't have enough time to pay off, for example early domination, or beelining to mass media for UN, or lightbulbing fission in a space race

 

[ds61514]

if you spend a GS to get phsyics first then all you're really doing is stopping the AI for getting a great scientist, when if fact you might very well get it first anyway. you're getting that tech anyway, and it doesn't give you anything else but a prerequisite for a bunch of more useful techs that you will actually make a real difference if you bulb.

As uber noted, tradebait. You can parlay physics into 3-4 other techs + a great scientist + world map + cash. If you get physics last, you get...physics only!

As for how to best use great scientists...how many wars have you started? .