how to build all the wonders?

[geofelt]

At easier levels, I have built all the wonders. At deity, it is much harder, particularly on large maps. Does anyone have any good strategies for doing this? The early wonders seem to be the problem, and it is production, not science that is usually the limiting factor.
---This might be a good gotm game, to see how many can be built---

 

[Smash]

Its very hard to do.The Pyramids is high pripority for the ai and to get all the ancient wonders without them switching off and getting something is a real feat.
Obviously you need to get Trade ASAP.

One thing is you know fairly early whether you fail or not

Best bet is some freebie techs that bring you close to Trade off the bat.I should think war is to be avoided so lots of free land would be important.

Unless you want to go after the ai's early and take them out before any chance to get going.That might be the best now that I think of it so small map most likely .

 

[Ace]

On a large map at Diety level, its very hard to get all the ancient wonders. I think the best way to go, is to decide which ones you want/need and go for those. That way, you have a good chance to get the ones you need, and, you can always capture the others later in the game. AND, on a large map, once the AI cities build a wonder, you can use the find city function to locate them.

 

[Smash]

The idea is to build them all your self.No capture.

You need a fast start or hinder the ai to the point they never build one.Or both

 

[Old n Slow]

I was lucky once & built all the wonders at empire level (in one city and a GOTM to boot!), but never at deity. A couple of thoughts that I have yet to try include adjusting the starting conditions -- barb level, world age & temperature, etc. I think I typically see the ai starting wonders after their third or fourth city, when they are not at war. Also, don’t know if the particular ai makes a difference (at prince level, the babs will start a wonder with as few as three cities, but I don’t recall the Zulu’s doing so -- of course, the Zulu’s will have four cities before the Babs have three so it may not matter.) I also haven’t paid attention to the ai choice & abandonment -- ie are the Mongols more likely (or the Vikings less likely) to abandon than switch when a wonder is built out from under them?

Another point -- it seems to me that the 200-shield wonders go the fastest -- typically I see Pyr, Col & HG as the ai first choices, with LH & 300 shield wonders coming second -- but if the first wonder surge is long, then the switches begin & can continue through half of the next batch. (This may mean avoiding some trades…) So if you can somehow get a situation where the ai is stymied to an extent, then you have a shot.

Smash’s second thought of course has merit -- if you can conquer the world before an ai gets a wonder, then you can build them all with no competition -- but I think that that is a different” game”.

 

[Smash]

I'm not sure you could conquer the world before a wonder was built somewhere.I guess so but would be a toughie and a bit lucky.

I was thinking you may need to harass a city to keep it from completing a wonder.Maybe some dips sabotaging but they don't get to pick a target.Where a player would find the time to feild units in this wonder rush is unclear.Maybe some NONs from huts?

 

[Old n Slow]

I think that luck would be a major factor -- if two pair of civs were fighting each other, their attempts at wonders would be deferred; also if a couple of civs started out on small landmasses (or a pole) then they might also start wonders late.

 

[Smash]

Success(kinda).All ancient wonders built so rest is formality as the last ai wonder was abandoned.

Took a couple starts to get a nice looking starting position.Did a fast as I can sleaze set up for quick 5 sheild cities.Those forested rivers were raised by settlers.
I had no techs to start and just got Warrior Code from hut.Getting the techs is the easy part

Got 2 messages about almost completed with Collosus and my last wonder The Lighthouse.Had to disband some units to make it by one turn in 375BC.

 

[geofelt]

Nice job. What size world? deity&raging hordes? Other than ICS, were there other key strategies?

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

That little "figure 8" river pattern looks perfect for sleazing. You said you planted the trees on the river, I'm just curious what the terrain was when you started... Grassland???

 

[Smash]

deity, hoardes, large world.

Well,you need to get the caravan train going ASAP.I was buying 5 sheilds a turn in almost each city.I had to raise taxes to keep a constant pace.Also got tribute from Chinese.Never contacted any others so there is potential.I think the biggest thing towards success was the AI didn't seem to go after wonders.Perhaps because I did not either?,waiting for caravans first.
Even with that I only made it by 1 turn.Thanks to the 1 turn warning.

Another thought I had was to go after Trade before even Monarchy.You could then use a few caravans for science to "catch up" to Monarchy.Only problem is the lower city limit of Despo before extra unhappies pop up.On a large map you are allowed 6.That may be plenty.Somehow you would need to get some gold so you could rush/finish caravans right after Trade.Either huts or making some quick contacts.Maybe Marco? but that wonder is not ancient and you may just miss that 200 sheilds.


Transformed rivers were originally non sheild grasslands.My goal was to get each crammed city producing 5 sheilds.This required a forest to work in each city.

 

[Titi]

I succeeded a few times at deity level, but like Smash I had a fairly good starting position (river in forest, hills, pheasant, corn,...)
The other nice point was that I could rush buy one or two (being warned one turn in advance really helps), but to achieve this I have to point out that I started building wonders even though I didn't have the tech for the following (for example, two or three "Pyramids" in progress, and then switch one to "Hanging Gardens" when you have the required tech...)
Important point too : the other civs were at war, leaving me alone...

 

[Smash]

Generally speaking,I'd say you have to have a good starting spot.Much more important than any starting techs IMO.You don't want to spend many turns laying down your cities.A nice river basin or lots of open grass or both.

 

[geofelt]

Incremental rush buying of caravans is much more efficient than simply rushing the wonders. 75 to 100 gold will rush a caravan worth 50 shields while it takes 200 gold to directly accomplish the same thing.
In a recent game, the ai built a wonder without the usual warning. This was most frustrating since I had the means to finish it myself first. Sometimes, I forget, but I don't think I did this time. Is there any insight on how this can happen?

 

[Terrapin]

I am stunned that you guys were able to do this at all.

Even in my best games, I am a slow starter and am lucky to land one or two ancients. I think I spead out too much and spend the early years preparing for the Celebration Days Population Explosion.

A question for smash: It looks like you crammed your cities together in the game you linked here. I can see the advantage when your cities are tiny and you are rushing caravans around building wonders. However, doesn't this really jam up your cities later on, so that each one can work only a few squares? Or is that advantageous, too?

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by geofelt
In a recent game, the ai built a wonder without the usual warning. This was most frustrating since I had the means to finish it myself first. Sometimes, I forget, but I don't think I did this time. Is there any insight on how this can happen?

If you or another civ have just built a wonder that the AI civ was also working on, it has the option to transfer its work to any wonder that it has the tech for. If it was close enough, or if it was working on a 300 shield wonder and transfers to a 200 shield one, it will finish without the usual warning.

 

[Boo Says]

I would try and fast build a small civ of about 8 cities and just have 3 of them churning out caravans whilst the rest of them build wonders or hoard sheilds for when a new one becomes available.

 

[Sparta]

interesting stuff; pretty impressive feat to get all the wonders. well done Smash.


@ Terrapin:

i personally don't know much about it, but regarding your inquiry into the proximity of the cities, check around this site for topics about "ICS" (infinite city sprawl). i'm still a slow, old-school builder who tries for non-overlapping cities, but apparently ICS is quite powerful in reducing your corruption and drastically increasing the speed with which you build and improve new cities. good luck researching!

 

[Pariah]

i'm still a slow, old-school builder who tries for non-overlapping cities [/B]

So am I, but I always aim for at least 10 cities before the year 0 AD. If you're geographically isolated, lucky enough to start out with 2 settlers, and have a good few freebies (rather than barbarian attacks) from huts, this can be accomplished with many turns to spare, even on Deity level.

As many as 6 cities can be working on Wonders while the rest carry on your expansion drive, or turn out caravans to speed Wonder completion. Of course, you also need several well-placed special squares of high shield value if you really want to get all 7 Ancient Wonders, without capturing any. Like Terrapin said, what fellows have achieved is pretty stunning.

 

[sethos]

It's very hard to get all wonders in deity - but it's possible.
I managed it only once. Here are the conditions
(Deity, large map, 3 billion years, raging hordes, 7 civs):
1. Two nearby huts brought me 2 horsemen.
2. The horsemen were busy - they found three advanced tribes,
so I had 5 cities in 3600 B.C. They cities were close to my capital.
3. The horsemen discovered some gold an writing(!) and trade(!), so i could rush 2 diplos in 2 cities.
4. Those cities were near "hot spots", where barbs (horsemen an chariots) appeared again and again (every 2nd or 3rd turn).
5. I nearly always bribed one barb unit and managed to kill the barb leader.
6. With the gold I rushed caravans for wonder-building.