how to counter shadows?

[Gamestation]

There is still the option of just overloading a stack of hawks with too many assassins. Then once the hawks are killed off, attack with the shadow. I think this works best as a defensive strategy though so that you could take advantage of your own roads and causing more war weariness on the other player. Also, shadows can still be used to kill high level mages on their own if you declare war (can't be kicked out automatically) and immediately attack before any hawks can get to the mage. You might lose the shadow, but the other person will lose the mage first.

 

[eerr]

hawk's while searching
defensive perimeter
sand lions(no kahzad)
floating eye spell(no grigori)

untargeted aoe/tsunami(will reveal location)(no kahzad)
marksmen(no dwarves?)


do note that the target chosen by a marksmen unit will be the one the exact opposite of the unit that would normally defend.
as spellcasting units are normally chosen last to defend, even over a weaker unit,(summoner vs warrior) the weaker unit must be "much" weaker in order to defend over the mage(cmb 3summoner vs scout)

 

[xAlephx]

Hawks should not be able to defend. They will still be the counter for shadows, because they will let you see them and smash them, but they should not be able to defend against an assassin attack.

Personally, though, I LIKE the idea that your most valuable mages will have a cadre of recon units continually sweeping the land in every direction with hawks/floating eyes to try to stop shadows. That seems to me to be the appropriate amount of investment to try to stop a counter strategy like shadows, and the induced paranoia is deliciously thematic.

 

[much2much]

Hawks stationed in a city should automatically sweep as if the city were selected as the target each turn. This would cut down micromanagement.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Yeah, I've wanted a persistent recon command since Vanilla Civ and jets/fighters. Doubly so with hawks.

 

[much2much]

How about levels of stealth and detection. So Hunters get Stealth I and Hawks can have Detection I but then you have Rangers with Stealth II. This could also be just as easily tied to Sentry I, so that way it makes researching tracking worthwhile.

 

[eerr]

How about levels of stealth and detection. So Hunters get Stealth I and Hawks can have Detection I but then you have Rangers with Stealth II. This could also be just as easily tied to Sentry I, so that way it makes researching tracking worthwhile.

because having multiple levels of stealth/reveal stealth abilities is going to get boring rather fast...

 

[Gabriel21]

I'm playing as the Ljosalfar and attacking the Sheaim, going all out in trying to wipe them off the map. But my precious, precious high level elven mages and conjurors are being picked off 3 at a time by Sheaim shadows! They can target whatever unit they want to target in the stack and they keep assassinating my most important units! What can I do to counter them?

Just put everytime one of the cheapest healers or adepts into this stack, so these units will first be killed.

 

[uberfish]

Against AI they don't have that many shadows, so bringing some filler units to soak up shadow attacks was easy enough before hawks (adepts, scouts, ravenous werewolves and weak summons like skeletons work very well for this purpose)

The hawks do make it easier to seek out and destroy the offending shadows.

 

[Sarisin]

Playing the Sheiam I have been getting many Revelers who can see Stealth from the Planar Gates. No Shadows have dared show up yet, but with a strength of 7 the Revelers can see and even kill some Shadows if they have promotions.

One thing no one mentioned in this thread is Barbarian Shadows. If you get far enough along in your game and there are still barbs on the map you can expect the AI to spawn barb Shadows which are a real challenge to defend if you have a large civ.

 

[dragonkeep]

The fact that these units attack the weakest unit in a group the problem. It takes a hundred turns to make a good arcane unit and since they are usually the weakest units in a stack they are the first to get killed by some invisible unit that just got make in 2 turns... this isnt right and should be fixed.. if you have an archmage it shouldnt be able to be killed so easily (assassin/shadows/marksmen) are nothing more than mage killers

 

[Silverkiss]

That's exactly the point of them, if you don't want to lose your arcane units, protect them with stealth-seeing units.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Or exploit their marksman promo with workers / hawks.

However, I'd like an option to reduce such micromanagement with a spell the casters could learn to hide or protect themselves from Marksmen. Perhaps a Dimensional II spell that acts like Bless: you cast it to get a dimension door promotion that is used up when you are next attacked. The attacker wastes an attack against you and your caster emerges unscathed.

 

[Chip56]

Normal assasins are not invisible.
And you could just summon imps or skellies to protect your mages.
Or send scouts with them because they are even weaker than an adept and targeted first.

 

[Vulcans]

what about magic eye? they are the same as hawks but they don't cost anything. and can be re-summoned next turn.

also my mages are normally 4st+C5=8st, so they are normally not the weakest unit, skeletons etc will go first.

 

[Chip56]

what about magic eye?

Im not sure wheter flaoting eyes disappear at the end of your turn like fireballs.
But yeah you could use any summon thats weaker than your mages not only imps and skellies

 

[MagisterCultuum]

They do (although I think the Summoning trait makes them last 3 turns, whereas fireballs/meteors always only last one)

 

[Vulcans]

They do (although I think the Summoning trait makes them last 3 turns, whereas fireballs/meteors always only last one)

Summons can defend during the AI’s following attack. And life sparks are still around to heal while the enemy attacks. Hence Creatures and un-summon after the Ai’s turn and before the start of your next turn.

Hence the summoning trait isn't needed, you'd just have to remember to re-summon the eye every turn.