How to deal with imperlistic AI?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by i_imperator, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Hey, i started a game last week as the dutch on a continents map. Sounds easy right?? Yea, thats what i thought at first but after exploring i was cramped in between 4 other AI; Julius Ceasar to the south, Sully east of JC, Cyrus to the north and the Chinese between me Cyrus and Sully. I successfully rushed Julius (Capturing the great wall so i didnt have to worry about barbs) and my tech crashed to 20%. I actually managed to bring my tech rate back up to 60% using currency, tech trades and civil service (Bureaucracy and the financial trait are awsome!!)

    However, and this is my problem, cyrus captured a barb city near me and built 3 more cities connecting that city with the rest of his empire(as if he didnt need any morehttp://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/frown.gif).Sully has also built a bunch of cities but he's pretty bad on tech. As for the chinese they filled in the rest with cyrus and kept to themselves (I know that the chinese are protective and industrious not imperlistic)

    Im just looking for some advice on what to do. Should i take on Sully with maces elephants and catapults, then the chinese and cyrus with rifles and cannons or should i wait for tanks and infantry and take them all on at once? Or maby i should restart and rush cyrus instead.Any suggestions?

    By the way im playing on noble level and this is my 6th noble game and i have another game as the dutch started just in case this dose go bad and im looking for a domination or diplomatic win.
     
  2. tempuraki

    tempuraki Warlord

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    it really depends on how big an empire you ahve, and how bad in tech sully is. if Sully is no where near machinery, take him on with your maces, etc. One thing to keep eye on is city maintence, but you are financial and sounds like you have a good bureauracratic capital going, should be fine.
     
  3. euripides

    euripides Chieftain

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    Hi stevoh,
    Generally, try to block them (settle farther away from your capital in their direction) then backfill. as CRE this should be easy, because you won´t need monuments for culture pops.
    You can win standard maps with 6 cities founded and then conquer in the renaissance (currassiers/cavs or cannons or rifles). Any larger and you should be fine.

    As to your game, I can´t tell much, because crucial information is missing. How many cities did you get, settle, conquer? How many have your opponents? Do you have food-rich cities? Good commerce?
    When you have multiple cities with 2+food-sources, thry grabbing drama for globe and whip/draft with impunity in the renaissance. You citizens will cry out loud, but who cares, you can get an enormous power boost.
    When conquering a weak nation with an powerful+advanced 3rd party on your continent, try to make sure the other one won´t attack you (you can beg for 5gold, if he´s pleased for example. when he agrees, you have 10 turns forced peace).

    good luck
     
  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Imperialist on noble shouldnt be a huge problem. Either get them to pleased before they reach war mode. Alternatively have 3-4 axe/spears ready to counter any stack they do send. Archers could also work. The alternative is to warrior rush them. 5-6 warriors will take out any Noble AI.

    The odds on Noble are still stacked in your favour. You do still need to cover the game basics. Working food resources early on. Expanding to 3-4+ cities by 1500bc. Connecting up copper/horse or iron.

    If you have 3-4 AI on a continent often the religion they choose can decide how to play the game. Hopefully you expanded before 5-6 cities? A rush is always possible if the Ai dont have LB and castles. I think we really need to see the save to offer good advice.
     
  5. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Thanks for all of the feedback... ill try and use it all. Ive only been playing Bts since last november (i got it for my bday) and i have been playing civ for about a year and a half. I know i should be on a higher diff level but ive got my leaving cert exams to worry about,( They determine wheather or not you get into college here in ireland), and they've been taking up alot of my time.

    I forgot to mention that JC founded buddism and i stole that when i captured rome. I was able to shrine it but the thing is that the rest of the continent is jewish, but diplo has'nt really been hurt that much. I also have an acadmie in my capital and i am able to get scientists.

    Ill try to give you guys more detail about the cities on the cointent and how many the AI have. I think i captured 2 roman cities and razed 3 others (maintence issues). I think i definately have about 8 cities but ill start the game up and check. Ill try to put up a save for ye aswell. Thanks again for the advice!
     
  6. Nares

    Nares Emperor

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    Science slider =/= tech rate.

    IE you could be running a 20% slider and produce more beakers than if you targeted a 60% slider.
     
  7. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Ok heres the Details; I have about 8 cities, cyrus has 10 but he has very bad land(tundra and ice). Sully has about 12 cities and is all of a sudden is doing well in tech (i think he got civil service) Qun has 9 cities and is doing ok in tech. i used a great spy on sully early on in the game so i can see what he's teching.

    I forgot to mention that i was able to build pyrmids and the great libary in my capital. Here's the save...
     

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  8. mrt309

    mrt309 Warlord

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    This is WB save. You'd better upload a savegame file and found a city 1SE or 2S of horses:)
     
  9. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Sorry bout that... that was my first time uploading anything here!! Here's the savegame file (not WB!!!) Feel free to play along if you want...
     

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  10. Ray Patterson

    Ray Patterson the dude is not in

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    For me it's easier to comment on what you already did than to suggest what to do now, so I'll do that ;-)

    Why did you build the pyramids? With no stone and no industrious, that is a huge investment. It could be justified by running a specialist economy with representation, but as a financial leader you shouldn't do that and you aren't. So it's not worth it.

    Why is Amsterdam only size 6? It's a great spot and you have loads of improvements. Whipping can be useful, but only if you are either running beyond the happiness cap or improvements.

    Why didn't you conquer Hun? At Noble that really should have been doable, seeing how it's much closer to your cities than to Cyrus. And it would have made quite a difference.

    Rome is size 1. Did you just conquer it? Seems to me another whipping victim.

    What I'd like to see is a save of around the year 0.
     
  11. mrt309

    mrt309 Warlord

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    Amsterdam's problem is food. I think you should work 5 floodplains and grow the city. Same for Rome too. You'd better work farm instead of merchant. There is gold tile. Everyturn you don't work the gold is a big loss. Researching philosophy is not a good idea also. I would try to trade it if i were you since other AIs already have it. Convert to Judaism. You are the only buddhist among jews. One more thing. I would send that settler to 2S of horses. It's a very good city location.
     
  12. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    @Ray Patterson: I dunno why i built the pyramids.... i just tend to go for either GW, henge, Pyrmids in most of my games, (it only took 20 turns to build though(after i rushed ceasar)). I know i didnt need henge for this game as the dutch are creative and it would be a wast of hammers.

    I can't remember why amsterdam is a size 6. I might've used it for whipping for the rush on ceasar.Or i might've managed it badely.
    The Main reason why i did'nt conquer Hun is because he's protective and i read somewhere that protective leaders tend to screw a rush with their extra defense promotions.And anyway this is my 6th game on noble. As for rome yeah i conquered it and it is another whipping victim...

    Do you mean 0AD? This is as close as i can get you, if you want to see an earlier file i can upload 3000Bc. (I cant upload 4000bc coz i forgot to save that.)

    @mrt309: Which horses? The horses near amsterdam or the one near Rome?As for religion... i tried to convert to judasim but for some reason it wouldnt let me (i might have just come out of anarchy when i tried) I will convert as soon as i can.....
     

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  13. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Kill them.
     
  14. Etheric

    Etheric Warlord

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    The horses near Rome. There is a ruined city in the right spot. There it gets rice, horses and some nice flood plain.

    Do you have your workers on auto? There are some strange improvements around. Dont do that in the early game it si too wasteful. The workshop near nijmagen for example, and a windmill not in the range of any city (unless you razed one).

    Nijmagen and Minoan need cottages badly. It will take some work to clear the jungle around minan, but replacing the scientists with people working the cottages should help.

    As was said above Amsterdam should be working 5 flood plains, then prioritise food (the grasslands and cow) for the next 3 pops. Similarly try to build up the population in Rome.

    You have a load of espionage against suleman too, so it might be worth making a few spies and seeing if you can steal any or all of theology, music and philosophy from him.

    I agree with the converting to judaism. As you only have one jewish city, you could possibly wait a few turns, but it should be soonish, or you are going to have everyeone declairing war on you.

    It looks like a decent position, you have a good amount of land, are in a good place with regards technology. I am tempted to play it :D, would make a nice change from my tribulations on emperor :D.
     
  15. Ray Patterson

    Ray Patterson the dude is not in

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    I looked at your 100 AD situation. That looks a lot better. Something went wrong in between.

    At that moment, you're building research in quite a few cities. I agree that at that point Calendar would be nice to have, but I'm not so sure you need it THAT desperately. And when you have it, make sure you switch to forces to expand your empire (workers, archers, settlers). There's still quite a few decent spots to be had, make sure you have them soon. And minoan needs to be improved now.

    A lot of your cities don't have granaries. Usually a granary should be the first building a city builds, unless you really need a border pop. For Creative civs in the early stages (before you conquer cities with heavy cultural influence of others) granary first is a given. Let other cities build its workers and chomp out those granaries immediately. Neither Amsterdam nor Rome has a granary now! And you are still going to whip them? Whipping with no granary explains why they're so small: it takes twice as long to regrow even one population. If that one population could have gotten extra food, as in the case of Amsterdam, then regrowing 2 takes even more than twice as long. Build granaries now.

    Notice that at this point Amsterdam is size 5, and Rome is 6. A 1000 years later Amsterdam is 6 and Rome is 1. That can't be right.

    edit: sorry if I'm a bit harsh. Makes it easier to write quickly...

    edit2: one more thing: you're not even using your pyramids. Are you going to switch to another government civic soon?

    edit3: took another look at 1160. A lot of your cities are stagnant in population, while their happiness and health caps are far away. Make them grow.
     
  16. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Rome is size 1 as you are running a scientist specialist in a size 1 city. Doh!!! Thats 2000 years of no growth! Not good.

    Amsterdam has a happiness cap of 16 and you are at size 6. The city really needs to grow. Cottaged flood plains should allow pretty quick growth! I agree with others. You are financial and you have wonder spammed. Why build mids if you intend to run virtually no specialists.

    Your second city at 2000bc or so is a bit late. Like others have said the Hun city should have been captured. If you had expanded/fog busted a bit quicker maybe it would of not spawned. 2800-2500 is accptable for a second city. If you are imperialist 3300bc is possible. This all depends if you grow the capital.

    Religion. I would switch to Judaism. You are the only one using Bud religion and this causes diplomatic issues. Switching will make most neighbours pleased with you.

    Going forward grow your cities and concentrate on cottages. On slow growth cities consider irrigating some grassland!

    In future try to keep your 2nd cities not 6-7 tiles from capital unless this is some plan to block Ai growth. You have some strong terrain but you have not made best use of it. I wonder where all those hammers invested in mids could have been spent. Why build a wonder that AI will build and you can steal later?


    Ackk just looked at ad save. Rome is a mstery! Why you laid third city in all that jungle is baffling! Calender resources would take 40-70 turns to be of any use and the health was shocking! Agree on comments above about granaries. Granaries should be one of first buildings for a city, if not a monument!

    Overall at 1200ad you really should of had liberalism by now. This is probably due to lack of great scientists and the war with Rome.
     
  17. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    @Etheric: Yeah ceasar had a city near those horses but i razed it because i was worried about maintence issues.
    Yes i usually turn the auto on for workers around 500Ad-1000Ad, is that too soon? Or should i mannualy use workers allthogether? Im still not really sure wheather to build windmills instead of mines or not when i get them.
    I'll sort out Amsterdam and rome and pay more attention to them. Should i change my capital to rome or is amsterdam fine? Ill take your advice on using spies on sully aswell. He's really the only person whos really pissed about my religion, the others are'nt really but i'll convert nevertheless and get them to pleased. By all means feel free to give this game a try (and post it so i, can see how you played it!!!:))

    @Ray Patterson: I did'nt know that granary's were that important. Do you think i should start again at 100Ad? your explaintion of the granary's/slavery mechanics is probally why Rome and amsterdam are in a such a bad/strange state. I probally should read up on slavery and understand how and when it should be used.
    Dont worry about being harsh!! Bdw what tech should i be reashearching instead of clender?
     
  18. Ray Patterson

    Ray Patterson the dude is not in

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    If you feel like it, yes. At that point you're the score leader and on par military wise. That situation looks comfortable to me. Your 1160 save would be easily winnable for some of the people who posted here but not for me. Keep your cities growing and improve your land, build granaries, markets and courthouses (when you have Code of Laws, which should be a priority now), and found more cities. See if that makes a difference for the next 1000 years.
     
  19. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Yeah the scientist is another reason why rome is at size 1. Really shows up my experience with civ4 dose'nt it!! And i suppose cottages would be the best way to play as the dutch. I'll keep the mistake bout building the mids in my mind for future games. It seemed like a good idea at the time to get early rep combined with theGL. I actually switched religion when i played earlier this morinin and it did get all leaders to pleased, it's a pitty though that i cant use the buddist shrine but i suppose the bigger picture is more important....How many tiles from my capital should i build my seccond city then 3-4 maby? Ray explained the mystry bout rome. It was a slavery and a logical diaster!!!!
    I had a look at your Dutch game and comparing this game with your emporer cookbook game makes my game look like a walk in the park....

    @Ray Patterson: Yeah i think its best if i start again at 100ad, I might be able to finish it sometime next weekend and see where i went wrong.
    Dose anybody think i should change my capital to rome or is amsterdam fine? Edit: ( Obviously learning from the mistakes i made with slavery and the specilists, if i play from 100ad)
     
  20. mrt309

    mrt309 Warlord

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    Buddhism is not needed to be your state religion to use shrine for gold. It still gives gold. 1 gold per city. You only get 1 culture in Roma instead of 5 when you converted to Judaism.
     

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