How to deal with the tech club at emperor?

[cabert]

Tech trading off makes it easier i think? It did at monarch at least. I'm pretty sure it will be easier then. AI's trade between themselves so cheap, it's a pretty big disadvantage for them to have tech trading off.

up to noble you have a bonus on research and production on the AIs
from prince up, they have a bonus.
At emperor, the bonus is serious enough to make it very hard to keep up without a good trading strategy. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it's hard.
+ no tech trading makes bribing AIs one vs the other very hard too .
I'm pretty sure I can win monarch without tech trading.
I can also win emperor without tech trading easily, but it will be cultural . No tech trading makes the overall tech rate a lot slower, making a halt on research at liberalism not too much of a risk . Other than this, I can't see how to leverage diplomacy efficiently, and since emperor is the first "diplomacy or die" level, I fear there may not be a lot of good options.

 

[Sjaramei]

up to noble you have a bonus on research and production on the AIs
from prince up, they have a bonus.
At emperor, the bonus is serious enough to make it very hard to keep up without a good trading strategy. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it's hard.
+ no tech trading makes bribing AIs one vs the other very hard too .
I'm pretty sure I can win monarch without tech trading.
I can also win emperor without tech trading easily, but it will be cultural . No tech trading makes the overall tech rate a lot slower, making a halt on research at liberalism not too much of a risk . Other than this, I can't see how to leverage diplomacy efficiently, and since emperor is the first "diplomacy or die" level, I fear there may not be a lot of good options.

Well, i'm a builder at heart. I warmonger for land to increase my science rate. AI's never have as much land as i, and even with tech bonus i'm pretty sure i can outresearch AI's easily. I will have to test a game with this to find out for sure. (it's the AI's tech trading which make them research insane fast, not necessarily the research bonus)

 

[cabert]

Well, i'm a builder at heart. I warmonger for land to increase my science rate. AI's never have as much land as i, and even with tech bonus i'm pretty sure i can outresearch AI's easily. I will have to test a game with this to find out for sure. (it's the AI's tech trading which make them research insane fast, not necessarily the research bonus)

research bonus + free settler + production bonus = you won't have more land than the AI and they will outtech you. Try it and let us know.

 

[Snaaty]

There are some civs, that can really run away in tech on higher levels... ...I play deity from time to time, there I learned to hate Ghandi for example... ...Ghandi sometimes manages to run away in tech to ALL other civs by 10+ techs, so he simply can´t techtrade from 1 AD on, because he is simply too advanced... ...getting a message that Ghandi just build Apollo program BEFORE 1200 AD just isn´t funny (and fair...)

@ Sjaramei:

So tech trading off doesn´t help much we an idiot like Ghandi starts with ideal surroundings on the other conti (good lands and no warmongers on his cont)... ...he WILL run away, it´s simply bad luck, a human player can do exactly nothing to prevent it

 

[Binky123]

1) War. This is definitely the biggest single advantage we have over the AI's. More land = more research power, and also means less for the one you're killing . One thing I've learned about war is - better soon than later. Build an army and conquer AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Even if you have to slow down your research and buildings. This means whip/draft a lot if you need to. The AI's are also less likely to declare war on you when your army is large... out of anything I find a large army prevents the AI from attacking moreso than being 'pleased'.


2) Tech trading - Although the AI's get large bonuses during trades, there is a good reason. The AI's tend to follow similar research paths, meaning you can plan out what you research in order to make trades. If you're worried about WFYABTA.. then I'd suggest ignoring whatever techs you don't need (dead ends like divine right or archery if you didn't use it early on). Also, you can try cultivating an ally because if you get friendly status they will trade with you no matter what.

3) GPP production - we can do this more effectively than the AI's. Light bulb techs and trade them back to the AI's if you are behind.

4) wonders - although they are fairly unpredictable, there are some decent things you can to do. Best economic wonders in my opinion: GL, pyramids (try to capture this from the AI, unless you really have ideal conditions for building it), great lighthouse (if you have a fair amount of coastal cities).

5) City specialization - Although sometimes the land does not allow for perfect GPP/military/science cities, this is another thing we do better than the AI. If you tend to run a CE, beauracracy + cottages + oxfords + academy generates a lot of science. Probably somewhere between 200-400 a turn.

 

[Sjaramei]

research bonus + free settler + production bonus = you won't have more land than the AI and they will outtech you. Try it and let us know.

I steal land from AI
Do you think i'm gonna stay peaceful and let them tech? I'm not stupid you know...

(And gandhi is one of the first to go down if i have him close )

 

[cabert]

I steal land from AI
Do you think i'm gonna stay peaceful and let them tech? I'm not stupid you know...

(And gandhi is one of the first to go down if i have him close )

yes sure
but without tech trading, you'll fall behind after the first war.
And some AIs go to war too .
To keep up, you'd need twice the land of the AIs,
since the AI has a lot of health and happiness bonus on you.
How are you going to prevent one AI to get a lot bigger than you (no tech trading = no bribing!)?

 

[axident]

1) War. This is definitely the biggest single advantage we have over the AI's. More land = more research power, and also means less for the one you're killing . One thing I've learned about war is - better soon than later. Build an army and conquer AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Even if you have to slow down your research and buildings. This means whip/draft a lot if you need to. The AI's are also less likely to declare war on you when your army is large... out of anything I find a large army prevents the AI from attacking moreso than being 'pleased'.


2) Tech trading - Although the AI's get large bonuses during trades, there is a good reason. The AI's tend to follow similar research paths, meaning you can plan out what you research in order to make trades. If you're worried about WFYABTA.. then I'd suggest ignoring whatever techs you don't need (dead ends like divine right or archery if you didn't use it early on). Also, you can try cultivating an ally because if you get friendly status they will trade with you no matter what.

3) GPP production - we can do this more effectively than the AI's. Light bulb techs and trade them back to the AI's if you are behind.

4) wonders - although they are fairly unpredictable, there are some decent things you can to do. Best economic wonders in my opinion: GL, pyramids (try to capture this from the AI, unless you really have ideal conditions for building it), great lighthouse (if you have a fair amount of coastal cities).

5) City specialization - Although sometimes the land does not allow for perfect GPP/military/science cities, this is another thing we do better than the AI. If you tend to run a CE, beauracracy + cottages + oxfords + academy generates a lot of science. Probably somewhere between 200-400 a turn.

Nice summary. By the start of the endgame in some of my games, I've broken 700 beakers/turn with Bureau, a ton of settled specialists, Representation, academy, oxford, etc. in my capital. Bureau kick ass.

Also, I would like to submit Statue of Liberty into the economics equation in lieu of Great Lighthouse which is kind of bleh unless you are in an archipelago map or something. SoL is freakin' strong not only because of the free specialist (esp. if you run Representation), but because it helps small/new cities so much with hammers at a time in their lifespan when they need those hammers the most. Yes, SoL takes a long time to build, but I think it's because the game designers understood just how powerful it was.