How to earn money in CIV II?

[CSDanger]

Hi,

I had tryed everything: Build roads in the near of my citys to have more trade bonus; build caravans and trade between my citys; build market places, banks and stock exchange buildings; raise the taxes to the highest level and build courts of law to end the corruption. But I loose money more in the games then earn it! Highring more tax collectors? No then my people are angry when I doing that. Set the tax rate higher? I have it to the maximum of 60% (I play in despotism and I don´t want to change it).

So what can I do? I only want that I can build all buildings in everyone of my citys and want to get more gold in every round so that I can pay the costs of all my buildings I have in every turn.

I hope somebody can help me with a few tips. I don´t know what I doing wrong. And I don´t want to be addicted by Adam Smith´s trading company.

So what can I do? Thanks to all who want to help me.

 

[Banach]

I'm sure that you will get quite a few responses to this, but I suppose that the two best pieces of advice are....

1. Get out of Despotism. Without a doubt, this cannot be overstated. Despotism is so bad in so many ways that the very first goal in almost ANY game is to get to Monarchy (In landing games, rapidly thereafter to Republic and Democracy). Despotism corruption is horrible, trade arrows are bad relative to republic and democracy, etc. One could go on.

2. Read ElephantU's guide for new players. It is, in my opinion, the best comprehensive, yet succinct description of everything needed for basic strategy to get to play at a basic Deity level. It's here -

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96725

If you'd like a more detailed answer, by all means reply and I or any of the other experienced players would be happy to chime in. I could write volumes on this subject. I excel at later game economics (post-automobile in particular), but fair pretty good at early game stuff too. See my comments in GOTM 82 for a brief outline of my strategy for late game. Once you get good, it's easy to pull in more gold per turn than you can spend, really. And by that I mean that I rush-build every city's production, from scratch, every turn, and still make thousands more than that. Let me know what other information you need and I'd be happy to provide it - I wouldn't mind writing more. You'd do just as well to read Andu's post on the Power democracy, however.

 

[Weird_bug]

Change governments. Depositism takes 1 resource where-ever there would be atleast 3 resources. Peat normally gives you 4 shields- under Depositism it's 3. Ivory is the same for trade. Change, and you will earn more. Why are you staying as a Depot?

 

[CSDanger]

Why are you staying as a Depot?

Because I like to give my people orders without oppositioners.

Anyway I had heard that in Civ I the players only play in despotism or democracy. So I had thought in Civ II it is the same. I had thought despotism is the easyest way to play Civ II.

And thanks to you Banach for the tips and the link. There standing other things I didn´t know. Very good.

Greetings.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Anyway I had heard that in Civ I the players only play in despotism or democracy. So I had thought in Civ II it is the same. I had thought despotism is the easyest way to play Civ II.

That was indeed the case in Civ1. And the designers hated it. They explicitly say so in the Civ2 manual that that was one of the things they set out to change. And they succeeded. Every single government in Civ2 is a worthwhile choice under the right circumstances. Despotism is the worst form of government any which way you look at it. As Banach said the first choice in almost any strategy is to change the government away from despotism. If you want to rule without interference, stay away from Republic and Democracy. All the others (Monarchy, Communism, Fundamentalism) suit you far better.

 

[CSDanger]

That was indeed the case in Civ1. And the designers hated it. They explicitly say so in the Civ2 manual that that was one of the things they set out to change. And they succeeded. Every single government in Civ2 is a worthwhile choice under the right circumstances. Despotism is the worst form of government any which way you look at it. As Banach said the first choice in almost any strategy is to change the government away from despotism. If you want to rule without interference, stay away from Republic and Democracy. All the others (Monarchy, Communism, Fundamentalism) suit you far better.

Ah yes now I know I had read that in the manual too. But I think that fundamentalism is too strong and too easy. Your citizens can never be angry, you can set the taxes to 80% and when you build temples, cathedrals and so on you get gold from these buildings. And everyone of your city can support 10 units before they take shield resources for support. So I ask myself why the most players didn´t play under fundamentalism. Or did I thought wrong?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

So I ask myself why the most players didn´t play under fundamentalism. Or did I thought wrong?

You got it right. Furthermore, you can build fanatics which give you the best bang for the buck (only 20 shields) among 1-move units.

Fundamentalism's biggest draw back is that science output is halved. Having said that it is the ideal government for waging war. It is used by many players, the reasons it is not the ultimate choice are:
1. It becomes available in mid game. Early conquestors, like Peaster, are done long before that.
2. Some players adopt peaceful strategies and win by landing. For these players the science output is crucial.
3. High score players have to take advantage of republic/democracy celebrations for growth.

 

[CSDanger]

You got it right. Furthermore, you can build fanatics which give you the best bang for the buck (only 20 shields) among 1-move units.

Fundamentalism's biggest draw back is that science output is halved. Having said that it is the ideal government for waging war. It is used by many players, the reasons it is not the ultimate choice are:
1. It becomes available in mid game. Early conquestors, like Peaster, are done long before that.
2. Some players adopt peaceful strategies and win by landing. For these players the science output is crucial.
3. High score players have to take advantage of republic/democracy celebrations for growth.

I never play for Highscore or whatever. I decide when I play the game what I do. When anybody steal a technology from me he will die without remorse , anybody who want to live in peace with me we can be friends forever . But I want ever that my people have a good live and my citys have all buildings they can build and trade between themselfes.

But anyway when you have fundamentalism and when you have universitys and other science buildings and entertainers change to scientists then you don´t have problems with your science output under fundamentalism.

 

[Banach]

But anyway when you have fundamentalism and when you have universitys and other science buildings and entertainers change to scientists then you don´t have problems with your science output under fundamentalism.

The increased trade, increased science output, and we love the president's day growth make Democracy superior for research. In landing games where research is crucial, one gets to democracy and stays there until launch, after which one may switch to fundy or otherwise to mess with the AI. I usually prefer to stay in demo and grow as fast as I can until I land. You can do fine in fundy with research, particularly if you have a well-developed trade system to garner you an advance per turn from delivery bonuses. However, you will find it rather hard to grow fast enough to "keep up" with city science at one advance per turn in fundy. Fundamentalism is easier to run and requires less micromanagement. However, democracy allows for crazy fast expansion and research. Money is better in democracy too because it's difficult to begin and sustain celebration in fundy with a low level of luxuries. The bottom line is - I seriously doubt that you'll catch any early landing players trying to get to fundamentalism to achieve their goals. We love the president day is just too powerful in democracy.

 

[CSDanger]

The increased trade, increased science output, and we love the president's day growth make Democracy superior for research. In landing games where research is crucial, one gets to democracy and stays there until launch, after which one may switch to fundy or otherwise to mess with the AI. I usually prefer to stay in demo and grow as fast as I can until I land. You can do fine in fundy with research, particularly if you have a well-developed trade system to garner you an advance per turn from delivery bonuses. However, you will find it rather hard to grow fast enough to "keep up" with city science at one advance per turn in fundy. Fundamentalism is easier to run and requires less micromanagement. However, democracy allows for crazy fast expansion and research. Money is better in democracy too because it's difficult to begin and sustain celebration in fundy with a low level of luxuries. The bottom line is - I seriously doubt that you'll catch any early landing players trying to get to fundamentalism to achieve their goals. We love the president day is just too powerful in democracy.

Sounds very good. My only problem is that the senate is too mighty and when I will be at war with a enemy the senate is stab me in my back and make truce or peace behind me. But the greatest problem for me is in democracy that I can´t explore more of the map or stationate my units near other countrys to make a frontier (I don´t want that theyr units walk through my country) because my people hate it and every turn I had read in the manual 2 citizens will be in anger and change to red like he -->

Another question: What did you mean when you talk about landing players?

 

[ccAMELS73]

Landing players, are players whose main goal is win by being the first civilization to land their spaceship on A.C.

you HAVE to win the science race to win the space race, so by increasing trade and growth as fast as possible guarantees a space race victory! What that all means then is that republic/democracy are best suited for this type of victory condition.

hope this helps!

 

[CSDanger]

Landing players, are players whose main goal is win by being the first civilization to land their spaceship on A.C.

you HAVE to win the science race to win the space race, so by increasing trade and growth as fast as possible guarantees a space race victory! What that all means then is that republic/democracy are best suited for this type of victory condition.

hope this helps!

Ah now I know what landing players are thanks. I only had play one game where I had fly to space with my mongol fundamentals and landing on Alpha Centauri. The other games I set in the menu that no spaceflight is available. Then I play this game since the time ends and then play a new game or carry on with the old game (but of course then I don´t win more points for the highscore when the game is "ended").

I think I´m not a good player of course. I have this game so many years now since I played it the first time (1996 or 1997 I don´t know exactly ) by my grandfather. And I ever played all these years in chieftain mode.

 

[ccAMELS73]

most people in this forum would be happy to help you increase the level that you play on (if you want, that is).

2 important things to remember though win attempting to to beat the AI
1. Expand your empire, that means build more settlers to build more cities
2. Trade.
...with yourself if you have to, but trade, trade, trade! (caravans)

 

[CSDanger]

most people in this forum would be happy to help you increase the level that you play on (if you want, that is).

2 important things to remember though win attempting to to beat the AI
1. Expand your empire, that means build more settlers to build more cities
2. Trade.
...with yourself if you have to, but trade, trade, trade! (caravans)

Oh yes I want to found many new citys so I do that already.

Yes maybe it is better to start very fast to trade with myself or with other civilizations. I think that should be no problem.

 

[Jesdisciple]

I'm no guru, but I thought I would add this anyway. I use Fundamentalism every chance I get, usually by the Statue of Liberty. I raise the science rate to 80% (until I learn to trade enough) and fill the rest with taxes (until I learn to use WLTRD). My last game that I did this, I was on the Midgard scenario (where Dwarven Alliance is Fundy) as the Merfolk (I love shallow sea!), I was getting a discovery every 3 turns, I had bribed 2 dragons (all I ever saw) from the Stygians and a tree guard from the Elves, I paid respawns out my nose for their maps, and every time I scraped the bottom of my treasury it was replenished a few turns later. Maybe Fundy is inferior for the advanced players, but it's great for everyone else.

 

[Banach]

I'm no guru, but I thought I would add this anyway. I use Fundamentalism every chance I get, usually by the Statue of Liberty. I raise the science rate to 80% (until I learn to trade enough) and fill the rest with taxes (until I learn to use WLTRD). My last game that I did this, I was on the Midgard scenario (where Dwarven Alliance is Fundy) as the Merfolk (I love shallow sea!), I was getting a discovery every 3 turns, I had bribed 2 dragons (all I ever saw) from the Stygians and a tree guard from the Elves, I paid respawns out my nose for their maps, and every time I scraped the bottom of my treasury it was replenished a few turns later. Maybe Fundy is inferior for the advanced players, but it's great for everyone else.

Fundy is exceedingly easy to use, no question about it. The game can easily be won with Fundy as well, as a talented player can exploit the trade system in any scenario and generally crush the computer no matter what. There's much less micromanagement and preparation required as well. As for the discovery every three turns and treasury issues relative to democracy, I'll give the benchmarks for my up and running democracy, post-automobile.

1. ATLEAST one advance per turn, occasionally two (real expansionists like starlifter routinely get this to three).

2. EVERY city celebrates we love the king day and grows by one point per turn (well, occasionally a city maxes out in size, but then it usually pumps out engineers non-stop. It takes a long time to max out anyway - max size is typically 30 or more, and that's like, 40 or 50 turns with all of the engineers built along the way. 40 or 50 turns is a lifetime in a power democracy).

3. Every city get's it's production rush-built every turn, from nothing. Typically, a third or so of my cities rush caravans for 185 or 210 gold, depending on it's base production. Another fourth or fifth of my cities rush engineers to run out and build new cities and improve terrain and maintain my to continue growing. The remainder rush whatever improvement they need to keep growing and being more productive or wonders of the world. Yes, they get built from scratch too, for about 2,000 gold or so a pop. I don't miss a wonder past that point.

4. Stockpile a couple thousand gold or so a turn up to the 30,000 mark in order to prepare for the spaceship build. The fastest ship is rushed in the half dozen or so turns between space flight and superconductor and launched on the turn of superconductor.

In general, a fundamentalist gov't can still do just about everything above except for #2, and they can't pull in quite as much gold. Mastery of trade can get you an advance per turn mid-to late game and more gold than you can spend. Running a full power democracy can take quite a bit of micromanagement as well - I spend a lot of time every turn rush buying and making sure every city is still celebrating. The upside to all of the management of trade is, of course, the ability to, say, buy a whole fleet of stealth fighters in one turn and go on a rampage, if so inclined. It certainly can be fun. Then again, sometime I like just going for soft fundy and leisurely cruising through the game.

 

[bhavv]

Against 6 AI on the biggest map on emperor level, I have no problem winning by both conquest or launching using a democracy.

Start off by land grabbing as many cities as you can by training 2 settlers per city. Try and build roads as you move to where you plan on settling. Make about 4 legions and 2 catapults and wipe any neighboring civs with no mercy. (I cheat a little and get legions from huts)

Try and get these wonders during the game:

Michaelangelos chapel, J.S bachs cathedral, United nations and womens sufferage to power up your democracy, and also I get pyramids, hanging gardens, cure for cancer and seti program, with leonardos workshop, trading co, darwins voyage, and hoover dam as optional. Dont bother with any other science wonders, they are a waste of time and you wont need them. You should be behind in science quite badly while expanding, dont worry about this, just research towards the wonders and you will catch up and overtake them after seti program.

Build temple > market/lib courthouse > walls > aqueduct > bank > caravan spam to get your cities to size 12 from WLTK and sanitation system > colliseum at size 12. Build university > stock exchange > superhighways after size 12.

Train soldiers in a few cities with barracks instead of caravans, aim for two defenders in every city and a mobile horsey defence force that can be moved between cities.

Around 20 cities and your laughing at an easy victory on emperor difficulty. If an opponent is getting too powerful and not using a democracy, save up and ship a transport load of spies to them a.s.a.p and incite revolts.

Save and Retire the game often to see who you need to deal with. Once your cash flow starts after your trade routes are up, bribing whole empires becomes easy.

 

[altctrl]

When I am trying to get quick money I sell stuff. Usually I find that the capital doesn't need city walls and after certain wonders temples are useless. Get rid of useless units by disbanding them in a city to allow you to build a barracks. Afterwards I would sell the barracks.

I love using diplomats and when I incite a revolt I get some money back and extra resources/units. I can sell some of the city advancements.

Trade is good, and you do that already. I'm guessing you know about supply and demand.

My advice is probably useless with all the other stuff but what the heck.

Monarchy is a great form of government and you have the same control as you would with despotism.

Sometimes you can get away with turning an entertainer into a tax collector.

 

[rrhal]

I'm no guru, but I thought I would add this anyway. I use Fundamentalism every chance I get, usually by the Statue of Liberty. I raise the science rate to 80% (until I learn to trade enough)

Generally you don't get any more science in Fundy after 50%. It will let you set the slider up to 80 but you will learn at the same rate as 50.