How to fix the classical era

blac

Warlord
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
265
I agree with everyone when they say the classical era is too short. Considering it entails from anywhere around 500BC to 500AD (or whatever you think it should be) it's too short. I think adding a few techs would help address the problem, but I think there is probably a better solution which makes more sense with regards to historical accuracy.

Make the techs for the classical era take longer to research! The classical era wasn't a time of technological inovation. At from what I've learned the romans and greeks never really but a lot of value into technology. Since they had so many slaves at the time there was no need to build better farming tools, or other time saving devices. Also the roman legions were fighting with the same weapons for almost the whole run of the empire. So really there isn't a lot of things to add in the first place. It makes sense to me to just draw out the era by making the techs to get into it, and out of it more expensive.
 

Alk3Crimson

Chieftain
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Mar 12, 2012
Messages
90
I'm not sure forcing people to use the uninteristing techs/units of the Classical Era for longer is the right way to "fix" it. Yes, the Medieval Era techs need to take longer to get to, but a more itneresting fix would to be to add a few "filler" techs that would enable newer buildings and units.
 

dexters

Gods & Emperors
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This was a problem? :)

I think everyone has their favourite eras, but they are adding WWI/great war as a new 'era' in the game, and extending the middle part of the game is where the game needs it and it could really make the intrigue work and produce some fun experiences of empire clashing.

I don't think a short classical era is at issue, given how our own knowledge of what happened during this period in our own history 5000 to 0 BC is extremely limited outside of the few major civilizations that had writing to record history, and even then, there are huge gaps in those histories.

Most of the histories people are most familiar with are crammped in the last 300 years. With a sprinkling of Rome. Most people probably don't know Ramesses II didn't build the Pyramids either and by his time, they were already a thousand years old.
 

Alk3Crimson

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
90
This was a problem? :)

I think everyone has their favourite eras, but they are adding WWI/great war as a new 'era' in the game, and extending the middle part of the game is where the game needs it and it could really make the intrigue work and produce some fun experiences of empire clashing.

I don't think a short classical era is at issue, given how our own knowledge of what happened during this period in our own history 5000 to 0 BC is extremely limited outside of the few major civilizations that had writing to record history, and even then, there are huge gaps in those histories.

Most of the histories people are most familiar with are crammped in the last 300 years. With a sprinkling of Rome. Most people probably don't know Ramesses II didn't build the Pyramids either and by his time, they were already a thousand years old.

I don't think it's anything that needs to be urgently fixed, but it's kind of odd that one tech seperates entering the Classical and Medieval Era in a lot of situations. In most of my recently played games, I get to Classical and a turn or two later bulb a tech and get shot right into Medieval. Playing on Epic speed even. None of the other eras progress anywhere near this quickly and it just seems... odd.
 

turingmachine

Emperor
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,438
It's a combination of it being only one column, the tech tree being more linear so many next techs don't have multiple requirements, and there being ways to acquire a free tech around the same time you reach classical (Great Library) letting you skip the column.

Honestly, the most we can hope for is an addition 2-3 techs making a second column for the classical era. The design of the game isn't going to change so radically as to ever really fix the classical era.
 

JaGarLo

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Feb 26, 2011
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There (points with his finger)
getting to the medieval age before 0AD in every game is pure nonsense...

I agree. Even with a ''poor'' science production, you'll probrably end up in Medieval before 0 AD. In addition, we get to Classical very early (2000 BC - ish).

I think that some Medieval technologies, like Currency, Metal Casting or Engineering should belong to Classical. And what about a new technology, Alphabet, for the Ancient Era and put Writing in Classical?

From my point of view, the Classical era should go from about 1000 BC to 250 - 700 AD.
 

dexters

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Or they can just rename the medieval era something else or take it out entirely and split the techs between the classical and the renaissance. People might be getting too hung up on labels.

I don't think the early game's pacing is much of an issue at all.


Medeival era is also a wholly European concept anyways, many other great Civs didn't have this era and were far more advanced than Europe during the so called middle-ages. But I don't want to challenge that too much as the game is Euro-centric. The Hagia Sophia was being built when most European capitals were nothing but a collection of wooden buildings and mud brick fortifications. So from the Byzantine point of view, they didn't have a middle age, it was the height of their power, the New Rome in the east.

They can axe the medieval era entirely and just split the techs between the Renaissance (also a European concept) and the Classical if people like that better.
 

theadder

Prince
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
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Addoria
I wonder if they will add more techs/rearrange things to extend the Classical Era to two columns. The religion stuff alone [shrines, etc] might justify this.

An expanded later game is very good [is the fully implemented era for the Great War confirmed now?], but I'd like some more in the beginning as well.
 

Kurtbob

Prince
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
470
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Arizona
Even though I posted in another thread that I would like to see more eras included and have the classical era expanded upon, perhaps the game needs to have eras simply removed and just stick to techs.

CiV is the first in the series where the dynamics of the game change in a new era...that being the small extra bonus from CSs and the small extra cost of RAs. Eras don't do anything else for the player other than the feeling of reaching a small milestone.

Techs could possibly become more flexible in their costs instead of matching like techs in the same era. I see this as a positive. Right now, too many techs cost the same as others. I wouldnt mind some variety in this regard.
 

Snoopaloop

King
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
607
CiV is the first in the series where the dynamics of the game change in a new era...that being the small extra bonus from CSs and the small extra cost of RAs. Eras don't do anything else for the player other than the feeling of reaching a small milestone.

They also open up new policy trees. I can never manage to reach new era's quick enough and have to somewhat waste a policy in an unnecessary tree.
 

Draskar

Warlord
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
191
getting to the medieval age before 0AD in every game is pure nonsense...

Totally Agree, they have to add some techs (not too much),or at least split some of the existing one, a lot of techs brings 3-4 "new stuff" when unlocked.
 

True_Candyman

Emperor
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
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Location
Leicester
Getting to the medieval era before 0AD is a problem, but getting to the classical era before 2000BC is a bigger problem.

Both could be fixed by adding an additional row of ancient era techs of similar lengths to the final ancient era techs before you can research classical era techs.

In the long run it wouldn't have a greatly significant impact on getting to later eras either.
 

Moriboe

King
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Nov 30, 2010
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659
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Belgium
I think that some Medieval technologies, like Currency, Metal Casting or Engineering should belong to Classical.
Definitely. Something like attached maybe :mischief:
 

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blackcatatonic

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It's a combination of it being only one column, the tech tree being more linear so many next techs don't have multiple requirements, and there being ways to acquire a free tech around the same time you reach classical (Great Library) letting you skip the column.

Honestly, the most we can hope for is an addition 2-3 techs making a second column for the classical era. The design of the game isn't going to change so radically as to ever really fix the classical era.

This. You can make Classical techs take as long as you like to research, but you'll still be able to bulb through to Theology very quickly with the Great Library and the help of a GS.
 

bruntfca

Warlord
Joined
Nov 23, 2001
Messages
120
Or they can just rename the medieval era something else or take it out entirely and split the techs between the classical and the renaissance. People might be getting too hung up on labels.

I don't think the early game's pacing is much of an issue at all.


Medeival era is also a wholly European concept anyways, many other great Civs didn't have this era and were far more advanced than Europe during the so called middle-ages. But I don't want to challenge that too much as the game is Euro-centric. The Hagia Sophia was being built when most European capitals were nothing but a collection of wooden buildings and mud brick fortifications. So from the Byzantine point of view, they didn't have a middle age, it was the height of their power, the New Rome in the east.

They can axe the medieval era entirely and just split the techs between the Renaissance (also a European concept) and the Classical if people like that better.

Last time I checked Constantinople was in Europe/greater Greece -with Latin and later Greek being the language of the empire. Rome was was/is also in Europe. Aristotle the Famous Greek philosopher was born in what is now Turkey, but then part of greater Greece. The English patron saint, St. George was also born in what is now called Turkey. In fact Turkey is not even that old as a civilisation.

The word "Byzentine" is also quite a new term coined to apply to the Eastern Roman Empire. In fact, during the middle ages, Constantinople/Eastern Roman Empire was called "The Empire of The Greeks".

"Byzantine" law, read Roman Law forms the basis of what is the continental *European Legal system*.

Your definition of Europe is really weird.
 

nokmirt

Emperor
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Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,088
Location
Iowa USA
I feel they should extend the Classical Era a bit. Then they should add an shorter era in between Classical and Medieval, known as the Dark Ages. ;)
 

MARDUK80

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May 13, 2011
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