How to kickstart RandomLeader to Monarch

[RandomLeader]

Very well.. I need to get this started and here it goes. I apoligize right away for possible spelling mistakes and idioticly taken screenshots.

So I'm playing warlords 2.08 and I'm playing continents, large map, standard sea level (or was sit low..) and with normal speed. You might have guessed that level is monarch. I took random leader and it gave me huyna. Not bad.

Not too many hills with my start but fair enough.

I made little scouting..

So I researched mining, bronze working, hunting and started wheel. First I builded worker and then started quexhua. After turning to city size 2 I switched on to settler. After I got my first mine to plain hill I switch back to Q and finished it one turn earlier. I discovered BW in time and now I'm chopped for a settler and it's now to turns away.

I'm thinking to settle near copper, Sheep, Ivory and stone

So.. in the beginning.. what should I do next (I'm thinking stonehenge for beeing industrious).

 

[RandomLeader]

And here is a save from beginning..

Learning how to do this.. editting..

 

[madscientist]

Without a doubt, settle one square north of the Quench to get the sheep/copper/stone/fresh water/2 flood plains.

Third city should be coastal to gather fish/elephants/gold.

Go for the oracle to slingshot metal casting.

This looks to be warlords so I would suggest cottage spam on the floodplains, sooner the better.

By then you should have the stone hooked and pyramids going in Cuzco. Then run a hybrid economy utilizing representation and the cottages flood plains.

All this advice with one caveat! I only won one time on Monarch in warlords!!!

 

[RandomLeader]

So I continued (making saves to go back when you yell halt!!).

I settled where planned and noticed new barbarian city.. in a nice place with pigs, hills and fish. So my second city build terrance (to gain culture borders to stone) and barracks for military because with those hills and Ivory+Copper+few floodplains I'm forseeing that as my production city. I also settled to north before that for marble.

I builded stonehenge first, then Greatwall. I missed pyramids, never really got started with that at all.. but soon I got great engineer. I was already building oracle so I rush build, believe it or not, a parthenon to my production city. There was 2 reasons for me. I wanted to get more culture there, +10, to get access to stone sooner and I really like that +50 for great person rate, cause I rearly use pacifism. I got metal casting from oracle because I don't want to take religion. Catherine is already jewish and I got open borders with her, hoping to get infected.. and there is a chance that somebody else discoverse confuasism to get allmighty cranky.

 

[RandomLeader]

I am building a worker in my capital fallowed with terrance and another worker. Tiwanaku is making axemen. Lots of them.. I plan to do colossus in my only coastal city. I should make it even I have no Idea yet where my opponents are. I have terrific start that I forgot to check with them.. I heading for trouble.

 

[RandomLeader]

And I have to test how this works.. isn't funny.. I didn't find any test-place from this forum?

 

[Rameau's Nephew]

Why bother with the Colossus if you only have 1 city to take advantage of it? (And even there, you're not likely to be working many water tiles.) Seems like a pretty big investment just to get a few GM points.

Your capital is rather under-improved. You should probably prioritize more workers early-on. You're working unimproved flood plains that really need some cottages so that you can take advantage of your financial trait.

Edit: Also, building a wonder or two early in the game isn't necessarily a bad idea when you're so far away from any rivals (i.e., relatively safe from attack and too far away for an early rush to be worthwhile). But Stonehenge + GW + Oracle + Parthenon seems excessive. Those hammers would probably be more productive if put into more workers, libraries, and exploratory units.

 

[RandomLeader]

Well I buildid colossus anyway and only reason for that was that nobody else would get it. Besides that city really didn't have anything to do.

Cyrus builded 2 cities right south of my borders. We had open borders and I noticed that he had only archer defence so I declared. Tiwanaku is making axes fast enough. Too bad that other city was not developed so it burned.. but I got other one with size 6 and after anarchy I whipped a terrance there. So few culture points + free monument and it won't revolt right away. Also I'm hoping a artist from parthenon city which will have heroic epic also soon. There is also 2 barb cities in my area and I will take another of those and burn the other. I will get code of laws soon. I got fishing and monotheism from making peace with Cyrus. Cyrus is very very weak.. should I finnish him of hoping that nobody will get feudalism and vassalize him or should I wait for them to declaring on me in the future?

Now the hard part for me.. my capital is few turns away from great library. Should I whip just to be sure? I still have monopoly on metal casting.. others have mathematics and Iron Working + many minor techs. Should I trade it to all?

 

[Rameau's Nephew]

Well I buildid colossus anyway and only reason for that was that nobody else would get it. Besides that city really didn't have anything to do.

It's hard to imagine that you couldn't have used those hammers on something else. Did the city already have a granary, barracks, library, courthouse, market, etc.? Couldn't you pre-build a stack of catapults for a future invasion (Cyrus' capital, maybe?) or a few more workers to improve your territory & connect your cities? Building a Wonder that will get little to no use is essentially pouring hammers down the drain.

I can see grabbing some wonders to stop that AI from building them, but the Colossus on a non-archipelago map is certainly not one of them. Actually, I'd be happy to learn that my rivals were spending valuable production turns on such a marginal increase in their commerce production.

 

[RandomLeader]

It's hard to imagine that you couldn't have used those hammers on something else. Did the city already have a granary, barracks, library, courthouse, market, etc.? Couldn't you pre-build a stack of catapults for a future invasion (Cyrus' capital, maybe?) or a few more workers to improve your territory & connect your cities? Building a Wonder that will get little to no use is essentially pouring hammers down the drain.

You are right. It took 18 turns to make and city grew at the same time. There was few chops which took little of that time. After colossus everything was quite quick to build and now that city brings hammers and gold which is nice. Especially because I was dropping from liberalism race and I used engineer and prophet to start a golden age which did more for me that I realized. Now liberalism is few turns away and it seems that I'm getting it first. I must confess that I need to run so I'm not focusing cause I plan to continue this later with more thought.

Hammers would have been better used but with copper and beeing industrious it seemed to be worth it.

 

[RandomLeader]

So would there be advices or other misshaps except colossus? I'm starting to get to the point where AI goes tehcnologyly it's own ways even I'm looking good now and might even win liberalism race. I was thinkin to get nationalism and building a golden age machine, since I have marble and I'm industrious.

I have small stack of axemen in jungled hill right next to catherines nearest city, should I take it? There is only few archers to defend it but she has feudalism all ready.. and probably she has maceman, trebs and spikes somewhere hiding.. wouldn't be too suprised to see knights either. I have poor warring techs.

EDIT: I have to post few screenshots from where I am... I'm also thinking loading save from earlier stage. My capital is quite fully cottaged and its size 15.

 

[Ruler]

It's extremely hard to say anything because you don't give any screenshot. At one point you had 4 cities and 2 of them unconnected and quite far from your capital and no single cottages I can imagine how much backward did you went at that moment as a rule of a thumb is 3-4 cities are maximun before Currency and CoL. Post a map of your empire and current tech-situation. One big mistake was you didn't utilize your 3 gold city. It's a huge boost into your commerce.

 

[RandomLeader]

It's extremely hard to say anything because you don't give any screenshot. At one point you had 4 cities and 2 of them unconnected and quite far from your capital and no single cottages I can imagine how much backward did you went at that moment as a rule of a thumb is 3-4 cities are maximun before Currency and CoL.

Sorry I can't post them right now, but latest screenshot where I have 4 cities the situation was that my workers (almost right away I builded few more) 4 started to cottage my capital and 1 started to utilize my northern city. 1 was making traderoutes. That screenshot shows situation where I just got those 2 new cities and infra was just on their way. I prioritized in early game to get maximum out of my second city so 2 workers builded copper mine, camp for Ivory and food resource. After that I started to develop my capital more.

But.. I planned to go back anyway (even while I think I'm doing just fine) and start post screenshots and saves from there.

 

[Ruler]

I could make Tiwanuke as a science too there's seems to be alot of semi-production cities around them, once you get Monarchy take a advantage of HR and fill them with units and cottage everything. Zhnu can work as a unit factory for now and once you get 2 scientist running in your capital it can work as a GP farm with it's wonders and keep your fingers crossed for GS so you could build an academy. Machu Picchu cottage everything, corn gives enough food and marble hammers.

 

[RandomLeader]

I have changed my plan a little since my spouse is needing more tentions sometimes. So I haven't got too much time to play.

I have been trying half games like I stop somewhere in time of physics. I am starting to win the liberalism race (still playing random leader.. I can't get rid of that). I have also been warring more and earlier which helps my game a lot. Also I have discovered the power of cottaging (so I am a noob, so what?).

In last game I was in a continent with togu, frederic and with that guy from rome (warlords). I got hatseput. I was in a huge tech lead in my continent and little a head concerning rest of the world. I crushed romans with warchariots and elephants and turned against frederic right away. Togu vassalized frederic when he had 2 cities left. That was my huge mistake for not counting turns. I was planning a head to bribe togu into peace before that.

But I will start new thread where I will be more spesific conserning my actions and I'm counting on you guys to point out my mistakes. Sometimes I notice them myself also but I still overbuild and overlook too many things.

 

[xanadux]

A couple thoughts on the start ...

I'd have strongly considered settling 1N of initial starting location to get a second hill in the capital's cross. You can see at the beginning you will have only a single hill for production. This is not good for a capital. 2 plains hills plus the forested plain will be sufficient.

As for cities 2 and 3, I like city 2 placed 1N of it's location as well ... with several advantages. First, You don't need any culture for a while ... can immediately hook up and work copper, sheep, and ivory. Second, this leaves more room for city 3, which I would settle on the coast on the grassland river tile that can work both the stone and the gold. This will be a commerce super city that will have enough production to build. With city 2 where you placed it, there is no room for the ideal city 3, which will shortly be a true powerhouse worth 3 or 4 decent cities.

It is ok that city 2 will never be quite as good as it could be placed 1 N, because it leaves room for a far more valuable city 3. City 2 will however, 1N of where you placed it, be able to work one flood plain when necessary for growth and to support mines. It will provide truly excellent early production while you get your commerce city up and running. It will still provide useful production throughout the game, and become a better production city late game. You can really make a lot of commerce quick with this start, and the wonders are just diversions from that.

I would prefer to use the capital to build 3 settlers and at least 5 workers so that you can get the copper city, the commerce/stone city, and the marble city all online, and build cottages in your capital and commerce city and mines for the production city. You will have then have 4 cities, 2 of them extremely good commerce cities, all with some decent production, and one with excellent production. You will have secured several health and happiness resources, plus stone and marble.

By laying this groundwork, you can later utilize your industrious trait for more powerful midgame wonders. Also, with high commerce and elephants, you should prioritize construction. Elephants plus catapults and the economy and production to support war will allow you to quickly expand.

 

[RandomLeader]

Different game that above.. but I did it. I won in warlords 2.08 in monarch level. Without this forum I don't think that would have been possible.

I was with a large continents map and with random leader . I end up beeing a Carthagian. I launched in a year 1954 and I couldn't believe that it would be possible.

In a nutshell... early cottages in 2 cities. One military/production city and it kept units coming.. with very end it builded Docking bay and Engine, it was also responsible of the internet. Every others were units or something to support that (like heroic epic and iron working). 3 wonders + national wonders (stonehenge, great library, Taj Mahjal). Early war to extinct Wang Gong. Immiadetly war with Togu when near feudalism. Vassalized togu. I won liberalism race. Railroads and plastics, after that rocketry. While building Apollo program I beelined to fiber optics. Made SS Casing while building internet. Researched only expensive techs..

I warred every time that some powerfull warred against somebody. I kept defensive pact with one nation almost all the game. I didn't trade any important techs unless somebody was way way way behind and everybody else got that tech already. No lightbulbing. I used one great engineering to rush a building.. that was wall street. I had a huge income from that city with almost none hammers. I had no navy. Weird, ha?

And made to the first place in my pathetic list.

 

[Honkoid]

Well, congrats for your first monarch victory

A few words of criticism about your start though:
You seem to be wonder addicted. I usually only consider wonders only under some circumstances.

a) I'll expect a strong advantage from building the wonder
b) I have the strategic ressource for the wonder
c) I have a great engineer

For Stonehenge none of these reasons were given.

a) Stonehenge is good for fast cultural expansion. This can be very useful, if you expect to settle much on your own, which is given regarding your wide surroundings. On the other hand you are Huayna and have a granary with +2 as your UB. A granary should be the first build in most of your cities, so you will have strong early culture anyway, so Stonehenge is somewhat wasted or from another viewpoint you don't really leverage the strength of your UB. You wouldn't build Stonehenge with a creative leader, would you?
Another advantage could be an early great prophet. This could have been achieved with the Oracle as well, which you too build. But since you didn't pursue an own religion, the prophet could not have built a shrine, so he isn't very urgent for you. An early GS would be more interesting with all those eventually cottaged floodplains around your capital.

b) You didn't have stone connected. Being industrious relaxes this a bit, but still I wouldn't consider Stonehenge strong enough here to build it. Could have been a worker and a quechua or nearly a settler.

c) A GE was obvously absent


Similar situation for the GW:

a) You need the GW primarily against barbarians. With your second city having strong production in short time you are able to pump out enough military to defend against barbs without the GW though. And perhaps you are lucky and get a lvl4 unit from fighting barbs, enabling the heroic epic without a war. And again you don't see the strengths of the Incas. The Quechua is well known for ultra early rushes against AI capitals, but with its bonus against archers and the free combat I promotion it is also strong against early barbs. They do well against barb warriors and archers and only have to fear axes which take some time to show up. Enough to build some axes by yourself.
The GE Point is nice, but unfortunately it is only +1. It will take a long time till the GE appears. And being industrious the advantage of an GE is not as big for you as for others using him for a wonder.
IF you build it though, you should use as few hammers as possible for troops. Only build the cheapest units available for miltary police, as is one per city. You can start building troops when your borders get close to your neighbours or you adapt hereditary rule. So don't connect your copper to early to produce cheap quechuas for city garrison.

b+c) Same situation as above. I don't think the advantage is big enough. Could have been another worker or settler.


Grabbing metalcasting with the oracle is always a good move for an industrious leader. It's cheap to build and you get access to cheap forges.

The Colossus is ok. I don't know how many coastal cities you have, but with a production bonus of 175% it's dirt cheap and a nice bonus to have. Even working only five water tiles for about 100 turns (the colossus will probably last longer) you get 500 commerce multiplied by libraries etc for about 90 hammers. Plus some GPP. Not too bad.

 

[RandomLeader]

Well, congrats for your first monarch victory

A few words of criticism about your start though:
You seem to be wonder addicted.

Thanks. And I was wonder addicted. Usually I build too much. I used to build always Great Wall but I decided some time ago not to build it ever again. Why? Because I need military anyway.

a) I'll expect a strong advantage from building the wonder

For Stonehenge none of these reasons were given.

Actually I justified Stonehenge to myself quite well. I was Carthagian so I got happiness from monument. So I would have to build monuments in every city anyway. So I build it before there was copper, iron or horses around. If I would have discovered bronze near by, I would have probably been building axes. Anyway, I got that extra happiness from stonegenhe to every city and still the best part was getting great prophet. 2 hammers till the end of times from each round and 5 gold. That 5 gold matters in the beginning a lot. At least for me it does.

Similar situation for the GW:

So I didn't build that. I builded a Great Library because I was in a lead, huge lead around alphabet.

But as I read your post it seemed clear that you missed when I said that victory was not from the game I started this thread. So your advices DO fit quite well. Thank you for them. And without that kind of advices I wouldn't have won this game either, I would have been bilding wonders and fighting wars for too long. Now I have learned not to build wonders (I'm trying to steal those now, but for some reason my neighbours never build any wonders..). I have also learned to except smaller victorys from wars. I can always declare again after a while.

But again.. thanks for reminding me what I used to do wrong every time. I still can't win every game, but now I got monkey from my back so I should win again. BTW.. I didn't save the game in any circumstances and I played it through with one session. I like to play that way even I knew it would not be easiest way. Well.. I got my reward.

 

[mudphud]

Thanks. And I was wonder addicted. Usually I build too much. I used to build always Great Wall but I decided some time ago not to build it ever again. Why? Because I need military anyway.



Actually I justified Stonehenge to myself quite well. I was Carthagian so I got happiness from monument. So I would have to build monuments in every city anyway. So I build it before there was copper, iron or horses around. If I would have discovered bronze near by, I would have probably been building axes. Anyway, I got that extra happiness from stonegenhe to every city and still the best part was getting great prophet. 2 hammers till the end of times from each round and 5 gold. That 5 gold matters in the beginning a lot. At least for me it does.



So I didn't build that. I builded a Great Library because I was in a lead, huge lead around alphabet.

But as I read your post it seemed clear that you missed when I said that victory was not from the game I started this thread. So your advices DO fit quite well. Thank you for them. And without that kind of advices I wouldn't have won this game either, I would have been bilding wonders and fighting wars for too long. Now I have learned not to build wonders (I'm trying to steal those now, but for some reason my neighbours never build any wonders..). I have also learned to except smaller victorys from wars. I can always declare again after a while.

But again.. thanks for reminding me what I used to do wrong every time. I still can't win every game, but now I got monkey from my back so I should win again. BTW.. I didn't save the game in any circumstances and I played it through with one session. I like to play that way even I knew it would not be easiest way. Well.. I got my reward.

I think the poster was just trying to give advice based on the first game you posted since that is where we see most detail and I'd agree with him on most of his points. Now building stonehenge with a charasmatic leader would probably fall under letter "a" of his wonder building criteria since it does give you a big advantage as you would build a monument in every city anyway. If you start playing BtS the great wall has an appeal that it can give you an early great spy to steal techs but since this is warlords it is situational - sometimes nice if you are isolated or the nearest AI is very distant to save on military units.

Of course some wonders are always tempting. Everyone loves to build the great library when possible most often to pump out scientists to light bulb to liberalism and a free tech from the oracle is never a bad thing.