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Humankind Game by Amplitude

Discussion in 'Humankind by Amplitude' started by AtlantisAuthor, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    I start to think that not feeding the hype train might indicate that Humankind won‘t release in April after all.
     
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  2. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Deity

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    That's my feeling as well. Well, better to delay a game then release it in a poor state.
     
    Hawke9, j51, Siptah and 1 other person like this.
  3. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Given there are 10 cultures left, there's no time for the one-culture-reveal-per-week approach they've used until now.

    So they're either delaying or they're changing to two reveals per week to pump up excitement prior to the release, right?
     
  4. TreVor_ish

    TreVor_ish Warlord

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    Well, it's Tuesday so perhaps some more news are coming today.
    EDIT:
    Maybe we will get Contemporary Cultures as a video - with all of them.
     
  5. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Prince

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    My experience with NFP is overall pretty poor, the game modes are initially interesting but under scrutiny feel half baked with lots of oversights including barbarian mode which I was looking forward to.

    Give Humankind credit for the lucy opendev and just letting us go wild with half of the game. I imagine they got huge amounts of feedback from that and part of the quietness is them reacting to it and deciding what needs to be changed. Of course I still want those cultural reveals back but thats mostly because it made my Tuesdays more exciting!
     
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  6. Revanchist

    Revanchist Warlord

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    No culture reveal today
     
  7. TreVor_ish

    TreVor_ish Warlord

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    I want it all,
    I want it all,
    I want it all,
    And I want it now!
     
  8. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    I think we have to settle for Blizzards tried and true „Soon TM“. :)
     
  9. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    The ten people who look every day to see if there's something new aren't really the ones who will determine the success of the game. That's not how marketing works. I think their strategy has been very successful, but it's not aimed at you.
     
    Krajzen, Atlas627 and FinalDoomsday like this.
  10. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Given that I dual wield college majors at the moment, and have like four other video games planned to finish/play with, I'd actually love to see Humankind postponed few months.

    If my expectations of vaccination campaigns are correct, that would also bring the benefit of HK release coming at the twilight of Covid era* instead of the middle of the second wave. How glorious would it be, for a game paying respect to the human progress to be released at the time when we will (hopefully) witness the enormous achievement of global covid vaccine.

    On another hand, late this year Warhammer 3 will be released (another game on top of my pile...) and Humankind devs certainly wouldn't like to compete with that beast of a strategy game. So if it is postponed, I expect it to release in Summer or September at the latest.

    Random thought of the day: today it would be obviously tasteless, but give it 20 years and Humankind 4 will feature "pandemic" as a late game event. Good handling of the pandemic gets some fame, winning the race for the Vaccine wins a ton of fame, manufacturing it for other countries and helping them wins a ton of fame as well. It is honestly the perfect scenario for such strategy game, you could even amorally sabotage rival vaccines. As I said, just give it time...

    * - for northern hemisphere at least
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  11. zhugejingqi

    zhugejingqi Chieftain

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    This is a very strange idea.
     
    j51 and need my speed like this.
  12. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    I don't see that much overlap with the Total War series. Certainly not enough for them to try to schedule their release around. There are other products that probably compete more. Plus, Creative Assembly is always releasing new stuff.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  13. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    I think there's a lot, it's a strategy game. Most people I interacted with in the old total war forums played Civ. Even across genres there is occasionally overlap when it comes to huge titles with wide appeal (e.g. Red Dead Redemption 2). I'd think Amplitude would prefer to release on a quieter month this year. By quieter I mean any month other than September/November, whenever Warhammer 3 is being released.

    Here's the "Similar Items" list for Humankind on steam. It's exactly what I'd expect it to be:

    https://store.steampowered.com/recommended/morelike/app/1124300/

    I doubt it. I don't think it's tasteless to represent pandemics in games in an abstract manner. We have no issues with representations of crime and war. The Pandemic board game is highly successful and the whole Zombie pop culture is about pandemics. If there are reservations regarding such representations in the current environment, I think it's less from the part of consumers and more about businesses being overly careful.

    Besides, why 20 years? You say it like you expect this pandemic to be a one off thing. I think people will just learn to live with the possibility of global pandemics and adjust their expectations accordingly.

    Seeing how pandemics have been crucial to human history, I'd expect disease and pandemics either at release or in a future DLC for Humankind.
     
  14. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    If you wait 20 years you'll be dealing with, probably, at least two more pandemics after the current one: they are averaging a new one every 10 years or so . . .

    As for pandemics in history, they have had a large role, but not one you can realistically put into a 4X game without some tweaking:

    Let's see: You are playing Aztecs and you just contacted people from Eurasia - Here comes Smallpox, you lose 3/4 of your population in One Turn.
    You are Imperial Rome - Oops, Antonine Plague just started, lose 1/3 of your population and Army in One Turn - unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting all those invading barbarians that much. Too bad.
    And You are Byzantium - Justinian's Plague, you hit the Trifecta of Terribleness: lose half your population in (here it comes) One Turn.

    And we haven't even gotten to the Ring Around The Rosie Black Death yet.

    Try selling That as a Fun Game.

    You practically have to include Pandemics/Plagues as a Natural Disaster of varying degrees, and realize that like some of the least-liked Natural Disasters (Hurricanes, Tornado sets) in Civ VI, there is nothing at all you can do about them for most of the game. Around 1600 CE Venice invents the Quarantine, but before that, all you can do is collect the bodies every morning and pray. Come to think of it, you could include Prayer against the Wrath of the Gods as a new Apostle 'promotion' that protects from the worst of Plague . . .
     
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  15. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Prince

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    Total War Attila had a squalor and sanitation mechanic that I liked from a gameplay stance. Every economic building increased squalor in a settlement while waterworks like wells or aqueducts increased sanitation. If squalor exceeded sanitation in a settlement then there was a chance of an outbreak every turn with that increasing the more squalor there was.

    Its not very realistic that you could eliminate disease with some sewers and a fountain but you could still get outbreaks spread from other settlements. I liked it because it gave you interesting desicions like do you upgrade that market and let your settlement dip slightly into squalor? The chance is low but you never know... You can play it safe but sanitation buildings are expensive and they won't help you from a warband sacking your town.

    A dysentry outbreak in my own Ostrogoth army inadvertantly helped me when it spread to the invading Huns and blunted their armies. A horrific turn of events that kept my little kingdom safe for a few more years.

    Of course Total War Attila works off four turns per year a much,much tighter timeframe than Humankind! I'm not sure how you should implement disease in a somewhat reasonable way as Boris is right that it would probably just be your empire losing half its population in a turn. I think it is generally abstracted as limited urban growth like Civ's housing mechanic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  16. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    That's the other side of 'disease'. The latest archeology indicates that early cities had an effective population growth of 0 because of disease brought about and inflated by having lots of people (and their animals) in confined spaces. The growth of cities was entirely due to people moving in from the countryside.
    This was not merely an Ancient/Classical phenomena: as late as the mid-19th century there were cholera epidemics in London and Paris virtually every summer and the aristocratic custom of spending part of the year out on your estate might have become fashionable, but it started as a way of surviving the worst months of the year in town!

    And in Classical/Imperial Rome, for which we probably have the best records, there were epidemics of note in:
    95 CE - malaria
    125 CE - unknown plague/epidemic
    165 CE - Antonine Plague, possibly smallpox
    249 CE - Cyprian Plague - again possibly smallpox
    275 CE - Plague
    309 CE - plague of possibly Anthrax
    425 CE - Plague, which also decimates a Hun army (Shades of Total War Attila!)
    444 CE - Bubonic Plague hits European Roman Empire
    455 CE - Plague of Scarlet Fever, possibly related to the first Avar incursions
    541 CE - Plague of Justinian hits everywhere from Europe to western Asia and Egypt
    590 CE - Bubonic Plague (possibly) hits Rome itself

    Anyway, you get the picture: if you have wide ranging trade and travel connections as Rome did, Plague is a near-constant at Humankind game turn times, and just in single Era (above list is just the last third or so of the Classical) you can get hit with 3 Major Epidemics (Antonine, Cyprian, Justinian) that wipe out up to half your population each time.

    So, you have recurring Natural Disasters several times every Era until the late Industrial (Pasteur, germ theory et al) plus a general reduction of population growth caused by near-constant 'minor' epidemics virtually every single turn.
     
  17. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

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    I think we have some events about disease, but there's no "system" for diseases and epidemics. Perhaps it could be something to look at for future content.
     
  18. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I expect diseases could be efficiently handled as part of the event systems. That way you could customize the impact / choices by era, and it would represent truly horrific outbreaks, rather than the every decade or so events that, frankly, can be abstracted away as part of the underlying population growth system. Would be tough to have a general system about diseases without first having an underlying health-system, and it wouldn't necessarily add much to gameplay as it's primary effect would be to modify population growth. The most noteworthy outbreaks, the ones that had an impact on people's behaviour/thought, seem prime candidates for events. (This terrible thing is happening - how do you respond and how does that change your society going forward?)
     
  19. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Exactly. The underlying and continuous disease in the cities can be handled easily by making it Invisible: until a certain point in the 19th century it is simply a constant modifier to what would be optimal growth of population.

    The capitalized Plagues, which could be local to one region/city or more general or even spread along trade routes (pick your mechanic or include all of them) would fit nicely into Humankind's Event system. You can hold special religious services, build a sewer (Babylon, Harappan cities, Mycenean citadels, Rome all had sewer/waste management systems in the Ancient and Classical Eras), encourage the teachings of some wierdo like Hippocrates, Galen, Dioscorides, al-Zahrawi, Pare, etc - don't even have to name them, since Humankind is apparently avoiding the Personalization fetish of Civ VI, just indicate their influence on surgery, diagnostics, herbal medicine, battlefield medicine, infection, etc.
     
  20. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Footnote/Addendum: In the late 19th century the combination of better sanitation, health care (clinics and public hospitals), germ theory and medications caused the population of Europe to more than double in less than 3 generations. That kind of Post-Plague population explosion, handled well in the game design, could give the gamer a real new set of problems to confront in the Industrial Era: how to keep all those new people happy, loyal, and fed. Among other things, it IRL led directly and/or indirectly to the Progressive Movement in America, the Social Democratic Movement in Germany, and a general increase in tension and conflict between the 'establishment' and the teeming mass of new population . . .
     

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