Humankind - Mexicans discussion thread

[CivLuvah]

I'm so glad a French studio did it right seeing as we actually have a lot of common history. (even if part of it was trying to invade us, but we got along nice after that) ,if this was an American studio you bet Santa Anna would be the leader, with a Taqueria UI.

Oddly and ironically enough, from what I know, that part of the history of Mexico with the French isn't as well known in Mexico itself as it is in the United States in the form of Cinco de Mayo. Of course, that celebration is stripped of any knowledge of its origins by those who celebrate it.\

Vip teased us, apparently Soldaderas is not a simple replacement of a generic unit, but replace the generic partisan which is something else Redacted feature, so we can't know more about that.
But seems more interesting than just an alternative unit of gunners with an ambusher skill or whatever

My appetite has been whetted. Next year can't come soon enough!!!

 

[ehecatzin]

Oddly and ironically enough, from what I know, that part of the history of Mexico with the French isn't as well known in Mexico itself as it is in the United States in the form of Cinco de Mayo. Of course, that celebration is stripped of any knowledge of its origins by those who celebrate it.\

oh, believe me anyone here knows what 5 de Mayo is about, it's just that for us the real celebration is independence day (even the revolution day drives more celebration). It's really interesting how 5 de Mayo took a life of It's own on the US tho.

 

[CivLuvah]

oh, believe me anyone here knows what 5 de Mayo is about, it's just that for us the real celebration is independence day (even the revolution day drives more celebration). It's really interesting how 5 de Mayo took a life of It's own on the US tho.

Like St. Patrick's is in the US, although I do notice that even in Ireland there are "US-style" St. Patrick's celebrations nowadays.

 

[Jkchart]

I am ELATED that Mexico made it! Honestly shot to the top of my list in who I want to play. Well, either them or Austria-Hungary in Industrial because I’m a huge Austrio-phile

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Its brilliant we are getting 60 cultures evenly spread through the eras on release, the level of variety is unprecedented.

 

[notNamed]

Its brilliant we are getting 60 cultures evenly spread through the eras on release, the level of variety is unprecedented.

Civ 6 does have a decent number of civs and the distribution is surprisingly not that over the place. It just muddles the lines a lot by forcing you to only pick a handful of these and play out the whole game with them.
If we were to do it the HK way, Civ 6 would have:
Ancient - Egyptians, Nubians, Sumerians - 3
Classical - Phoenicians, Scythians, Romans, Persians, Mayans, Macednonians, Indians, Greeks, Gauls - 9
Medieval - Arabs, Aztecs, Byzantines, Georgians, Hungarians, Incas, Indonesians, Khmers, Malians, Mongols, Norwegians - 11
Early Modern - Swedes, Spanish, Poles, Ottomans, Maori, Mapuche, Koreans, Kongolese, Dutch, Cree, Chinese, English - 12
Industrial - Ethiopians, French, Germans, Colombians, Japanese, Russians, Scots, Zulu - 8
Contemporary - Canadians, Brazilians, Australians, Americans - 4

*classification notes:
C - Phoenicians are Carthage, Mayans are led by a medieval ruler, but the other stuff is from earlier eras in-game so they fit the same era as in HK, Indians are all in this bar Gandhi himself.
EM - Maori history starts in early modern and the ones in game are built as pre-European contact, Koreans focus on Joseon, Chinese fit Ming, English with sea dogs and navies fit this timeslot as well.
I - Japanese get Meiji, Samurai and factories, so Edo-Meiji (our Industrial) roughly fits

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Civ 6 does have a decent number of civs and the distribution is surprisingly not that over the place.

Well looking at how you have organised them I'd argue only having three ancient era cultures is a pretty poor show. And lets not forget of course Civ 6 is officially four years old today and has recieved numerous expansions and DLC's. Humankind will have 60 cultures right out the gate, Civ 6 will have 50 when the New Frontier Pass is complete.

 

[notNamed]

Well looking at how you have organised them I'd argue only having three ancient era cultures is a pretty poor show. And lets not forget of course Civ 6 is officially four years old today and has recieved numerous expansions and DLC's. Humankind will have 60 cultures right out the gate, Civ 6 will have 50 when the New Frontier Pass is complete.

True, but the eras that are filled hover around the figure 10. Which is not bad considering you still need to account for the abstractions here (several present could be reclassified by someone else). I kinda went into this expecting some era to spike out of proportion. At the same time I agree with the critique raised by BorisGodenouf elsewhere that the fact I can even do most of these non-contentiously (i.e. they mostly focus on fairly short timespans/specific polities) is not a positive for Civ since HK is better, in fact much better at doing that and always will be.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

*classification notes:
C - Phoenicians are Carthage, Mayans are led by a medieval ruler, but the other stuff is from earlier eras in-game so they fit the same era as in HK, Indians are all in this bar Gandhi himself.

I'd argue that Phoenicians could still be Ancient.

Well looking at how you have organised them I'd argue only having three ancient era cultures is a pretty poor show. And lets not forget of course Civ 6 is officially four years old today and has recieved numerous expansions and DLC's. Humankind will have 60 cultures right out the gate, Civ 6 will have 50 when the New Frontier Pass is complete.

I mean to be fair Humankind is presenting it's culture's differently than Civ does categorizing them by era. That makes it a lot easier to have 60 different cultures right off the bat.
There may be 60 different cultures but 3 of them (Zhou, Ming, Chinese) would it into one China faction in Civ, as well as Teutons and Germans would go under one German civ.

 

[Jcturmer]

So, China has three cultures (Zhou, Ming, Chinese) and India too (Harappans, Maurya, Mughal) and Greece (Mycenaeans, Greece, Byzantine) and Italy (Rome, Venice, Italy)
Furthermore, the "modern Europeans powers" like France, England and Germany has only two cultures.
However, Mexico has FOUR (Olmecs, Maya, Aztecs and Mexico) Congratulations for the mexicans

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I mean to be fair Humankind is presenting it's culture's differently than Civ does categorizing them by era. That makes it a lot easier to have 60 different cultures right off the bat.
There may be 60 different cultures but 3 of them (Zhou, Ming, Chinese) would it into one China faction in Civ, as well as Teutons and Germans would go under one German civ.

You can still make a case for them being different enough to warrent multiple inclusions though. It also means you get thematic cultures that focus on a paticular period of time. I much prefer this personally over a civ that tries to captures lots of different things over a long history like Germans with a modern name and U-boat but with unique infrastructure, bonus and leader based in medieval. Or Scotland with Early Modern themed bonus, Industrial unique unit, Modern improvement and with Medieval leader. Japan with Samurai and Electronics factory and so on and so on. Its my personal preference anyway I can understand why others feel differently.

It also means were getting a chance to see cultures that have never got a look in previously because they get overshadowed and considred part of a successor culture like Zhou, Mycenea and Harrapans.

 

[Narcisse]

So, China has three cultures (Zhou, Ming, Chinese) and India too (Harappans, Maurya, Mughal) and Greece (Mycenaeans, Greece, Byzantine) and Italy (Rome, Venice, Italy)
Furthermore, the "modern Europeans powers" like France, England and Germany has only two cultures.
However, Mexico has FOUR (Olmecs, Maya, Aztecs and Mexico) Congratulations for the mexicans

Well, Celts are a starter for Franks > French and English > British (even if heavy based on Gauls). Goth for Teutons > Germans.
And we could argue than Celts, Romans, Goths, Phoenicians, Byzantines, Norse, etc ... are a starter for a wide range of cultures.

Don't forget Spanish in the Mexican run

 

[ehecatzin]

However, Mexico has FOUR (Olmecs, Maya, Aztecs and Mexico) Congratulations for the mexicans

Don't forget Spanish in the Mexican run

Yeah It's so nice to see mesoamerica so well represented (and still they have lots of mesoamerican cultures to pick and choose left). I agree with Narcisse tho, Mexico is a bit complicated, not really a continuum from mesoamerica, but not a clean continuation of Spain either...

I hope we do get Brazil as well , so we can have a well represented latin america at release.

 

[CivLuvah]

I agree with Narcisse tho, Mexico is a bit complicated, not really a continuum from mesoamerica, but not a clean continuation of Spain either...

From a book I read about the early colonial period in Mexico, it's a mestizo culture, a blend of indigenous and European.

 

[conorbebe]

Just wanted to say I love this implementation! I haven't been totally thrilled by the other industrial era cultures so far, but this one hits the spot for me.

 

[j51]

This is a good one! Really like how it all hopefully fits together.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

You can still make a case for them being different enough to warrent multiple inclusions though. It also means you get thematic cultures that focus on a paticular period of time. I much prefer this personally over a civ that tries to captures lots of different things over a long history like Germans with a modern name and U-boat but with unique infrastructure, bonus and leader based in medieval. Or Scotland with Early Modern themed bonus, Industrial unique unit, Modern improvement and with Medieval leader. Japan with Samurai and Electronics factory and so on and so on. Its my personal preference anyway I can understand why others feel differently.

It also means were getting a chance to see cultures that have never got a look in previously because they get overshadowed and considred part of a successor culture like Zhou, Mycenea and Harrapans.

I agree that they are different enough to warrant an inclusion, at least the way the game is designed in Humankind. To me it really wouldn't work in Civ other than having multiple leaders which they've started doing. Of course Humankind isn't using those so they can be implemented such as the Harappans, which you mention and are actually a separate city-state currently in Civ.

Though I am still waiting for my separate Italy in Civ because they are definitely different enough to warrant an inclusion.

Anyway it's good that Mexicans finally get in a 4X game other than being represented solely by the Aztecs and the Maya.

 

[ehecatzin]

From a book I read about the early colonial period in Mexico, it's a mestizo culture, a blend of indigenous and European.

yup pretty much it, I honestly find the discussions between blood purity obsesed Hispanists and Indigenists so annoying, Mexico has always been a melting pot of cultures and that's what makes it unique.

 

[BuchiTaton]

We already have :
Olmec (Aesthete) > Maya (Builder) > Aztec (Militarist) > Spanish* (Expansionist) > Mexican (Agrarian)

Some ideas for more Mesoamerican cultures could be:

- Zapotec, Classical (Scientist)
- Totonac, Medieval (Merchant)
- Purepecha, Medieval (Expansionist)

Early Modern Chichimec and Tlaxcaltec cultures could be an interesting way to remind that the history of the natives on this region did not ended with the fall of Tenochtitlan. Who knows maybe even an Industrial Cruzoob state.

 

[8housesofelixir]

- Zapotec, Classical (Scientist)

The Olmec reveal tweet specifically mentioned Mayans, Aztecs, and Zapotecs, two of which already included in the game. I would image Zapotecs show up in a future DLC alongside the promised Incans.

Early Modern Chichimec and Tlaxcaltec cultures could be an interesting way to remember that the history of the natives on this region did not endend with the fall of Tenochtitlan.

Tlaxcala would definitely be an interest one, especially they were among the very few Non-western civilizations that had a republicanism political system invented by their own.