Hyborem rush

ArkhanTheBlack

Warlord
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
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153
I was playing around with some strategies for the fastest rush to infernals. I wanted to know if it's possible to use in my multiplayer games with 1 - 2 friends on small maps with quick tech.
I tried a lot of races with different strategies and I found the result quite surprising. The Calabim were pretty much the only race who could manage a Hyborem rush almost reliable in about 75 turns. My fastest result was 73 turns with a good start. It's possible to be even faster by finding researches in villages or getting similar boosts by special events.

There are some very interesting conclusions for this very short teching time of ~75 turns:
Long term teching strategies are pretty much impossible. Researches like writing for libraries are simply to expensive and won't pay back in this short time. Even mining for gold and gems is too expensive except you get at least 2 of them in your start city. It's still a problem since they don't produce food and you have to employ a priest in your city for great prophets. In order to succeed you need two great prophets. One to research 'Corruption of spirit' in one turn and another one to get about 2/3 of the 'Infernal pact' research. They can't be replaced by great sages (unfortunately) since they don't have enough time to make an impact. Therefore you need a leader with the philosophical trait. I experimented a bit with the extra golden age of the Balseraphs which also increases greater person growth for 20 turns. However, it was not enough.
The great advantage of Calabim is their world spell. If you trigger it as soon as you've built you first city, you can start with a pop 3 city which is a huge economic boost. A hills/plains as starting place is also important for the extra hammer and defense.
There are two basic working strategies:

1.) If you have a starting place with dyes or similar productive plantation places, you should immediately research agriculture and calendar. Build some warriors at the start and then a worker which should be ready when calendar is ready. Both a 1 or 2 city strategy is possible in this case.

2.) You can also go fishing if you have some good fresh water lakes. It saves some research points since Calabim start with exploration, but you need to play a two city
strategy to get the required research power. This strategy has the advantage that you don't have to worry about barbarians destroying upgraded tiles too much.

Both strategies continue with ancient chants and mysticism. If you want to play a 2 city strategy, you should start building a settler now. As soon as mysticism is researched switch to god king and pacifism and immediately build a pagan temple. The temple has 100% priority. Interrupt the settler if necessary and switch everything to production. You need to employ a priest as soon as possible or you won't be able to get your second great prophet in time. The first one is easy. If you haven't finished the temple by round 30 - 35 you're too slow. After you've employed your priest, you can continue with the settler and/or building up your city. If you build a second city then build it very close and connect it by roads. You need a fast connection because you have to send the savant from ashen veil later to your starting city since it's usually no founded in the capital. The order of research of philosophy, knowledge of the ether and way of the wicked is not important. As soon as you can start corruption of spirit, finish it with a prophet in one turn and change your religion to ashen veil. Then start infernal pact. Usually, you don't have you second prophet by this time. Since he can't research infernal pact in one turn you've still some time. Build the temple of veil ASAP in your capital, even if your research suffers. If you have two cities, you probably have to move the savant to your capital first. Therefore you need the roads.
When you've finished the temple of veil you can employ a second priest which will give the greater prophet growth rate a tremendous boost (=15 growth rate). Finish infernal pact as soon as you get the second great prophet and change to the infernals.

Possible improvements.

- If you have a close AI neighbour you can make a warrior rush instead of building a settler. Alexis has the aggressive trait and the economic boost of a pop 3 city at the start should give you a huge advantage. In this case you can build a pagan temple in both cities at the same time and try a double priest employment. Finish the first GP in one city and the second in the other. I think it should be possible to get < 70 turns with this strategy. However, the enemy city shouldn't be too far away or the city distance upkeep could kill your research.

- Kuriotates might also be a strong tech civ, however I didn't like the good civ goes demons scenario...


I'm open ears for better or improved strategies :king:. So far I tried Hippus, Sheaim, Sidar, Balseraphsa and Amurites, but they were all too slow.
 
My fastest to Infernal Pact has been with the Lanun (Hannah). Pirate Coves give ridiculous commerce for a tremendous research rate, and seafood or mature coves can easily feed Priests. Obviously she's not Philosophical so you won't be able to get two priests; you'd have to self-research Corruption of Spirit. Perhaps this would be balanced by the fact that Agriculture->Calendar is completely unnecessary, and you can kick your economy into ridiculously high gear after researching Fishing only? I don't know if the cove research boost is good enough to make such a strategy competitive with a Philosophical leader. I've never raced for it so I don't know if it can be done in 75 turns.
 
Lanun could also have a good potential for a Hyborem rush. However, I tried them once and immediately ended up with a start place without any fresh water lakes or sea connection in reasonable range. Therefore, it looked a bit too hop or top for me for a reliable strategy. However, it would be interesting to know if they are really faster if they have a good starting place.
 
Well if you play Erebus or a map with a flavor-oriented start, they pretty much always get Coast.

I was curious so I rolled a Lanun start last night. Now, an optimal Lanun spot would have, in order of importance:

1) Space for 3 coves (not that unusual)
2) At least 1 pearls (a VERY high commerce tile)
3) A Whale (for a higher happy cap)
A seafood is helpful but not necessary because the coves mature very quickly.

My start had space for 3 coves and a Clam but neither of the others. I eventually ended up getting IP at turn 110, which is not really that quick. The problem is that you need to go for Fishing right away, and Fishing is a more expensive tech than I remembered (I always think of it from BTS where's it's super cheap). It took me 30 turns to get to Fishing, which slowed everything down. I was also stuck at a happy cap of 5 until I popped AV, which prevented me from working very much Financial coast. I think it would be desirable to switch to Religion along with God-King for the extra happies from the Temples; I may try it again with this strat. I also didn't try to settle a second city--I probably should have done so to get the commerce from a second set of Coves.
 
I've never considered Lanun, but I can imagine that depending on the map and starting location it could be an interesting chioce.

However, my initial estimate is that only a civilzation with a leader with the Philosophical trait will Hyborem rush the fastest.

Basically, I always try to found a city near Floodplains so that the tiles I work off give coins for research. Research Agriculture so that I can farm more land so that I can support specialists. Go Straight Ancient Chants then Mysticism.

On Mysticism I immediately Adopt God-King and Pacifism so that I can build faster and so that I get Great People Faster. I then immediately build an Elder council and when completed, permanently place one citizen as a Sage. Then I build a Pagan Temple.

After Researching Mysticism I research Philosophy and then Way of the Wicked. While that happens my great sage points are increasing and eventually a Great Sage pops up. When that city produces a Great Sage, that Sage is immediately sacrificed to build an Academy.

(I used to do this differently, going straight Philosophy then Way of the Wicked while popping the Great Sage to learn knowledge of the Ether. However, in the end it's slower.)

If you get lucky, you might get the event that gives you a Great Prophet for 50 gold. If so, immediately pop that Great Prophet to get Philosophy or Corruption of the spirit.

Right after you finish the Pagan temple, you have two specialists (1 Sage and 1 Priest Researching). If you pop a Great Sage, you settle the sage in the city with the Academy for more research or Create Stigmata on the Unborn. If you Pop the Great Priest, you pop the Priest for Corruption of the Spirit. If you pop a great Priest after you research Corruption of the Spirit, use it to Create Stigmata on the Unborn, or settle it so that you get more gold so that you can make more cities.

I always create 2 cities and sometimes 3 when going for Hyborem Summoning because an elder council and sage in another city is worth the Gold cost. Similarly, if you found enough goody huts with gold, you won't have to lower your research rate.

I used to Consider Einion Logos the best Leader to go for Corruption of the Spirit as he had Spiritual and Philosophical which means that he didn't lose a turn switching to God-King, and the Pagan temple is created faster, meaning that great people come faster.

Currently my bet is with Cardith Lorda because he's Philosophical for quicker Elder Councils and Great People, Expansive for Quicker Settlers, and Sprawling for more happiness for bigger cities for quicker Elder Councils, Pagan Temples, and Ashen Veil Temples.

By the way, in case it wasn't obvious, as soon as you found Ashen Veil, immediately produce Ashen Veil Temples for Extra Research, and as soon as the temple is done, put a second sage specialist in that city.

Although I think Hyborem rushing is fun, it also leaves your Civilization very vulnerable for 70+ turns, so rushing as fast as possible (i.e. immediately building buildings and few warriors defending each city) is not always possible (you could lose the game or a city).

I've also found that the Infernal Civ's start can be very sluggish if you only have the techs Agric, Ancient Chants, Mysticism, Philosophy, Way of the Wicked. Generally, since the civ that spawned Hyborem has so much research, they can find extra techs much quicker. So I generally try to research Corruption of the Spirit up to 1 turn before its completed (in case I get rushed and can't defend adequately) and then Proceed to get Education, Priesthood, and likely Exploration.

If Hyborem starts out with those, he's much stronger, as he can immediately train Ritualists after making temples of the veil to adequately defend Hyborem's cities, and help Hyborem Attack (by casting Ring of Flames) and Heal (since Ritualists have Healing 2 promotion which makes Hyborem heal faster so that the can conquer faster).

By the way, I wouldn't worry too much about a good Civ researching Corruption of the Spirit. All the Evil Civs patently suck at summoning Hyborem since only 1 Evil leader has Philosophy and the Calabim can't build Elder Councils. Just reflavor the Kuriorate leader as Smeagol-like character, a jealous halfing prince and the Elohim as Dark Prophets of Destruction.

Peace,
Bill
 
110 on normal = 73 on quick

Oh yeah, also map size and difficulty matter. The higher and bigger you go, the slower research is, even if there are no AIs. (This came up for someone who was owning his opponents in AI-less, small map MP games on Noble. It's not obvious that those settings directly effect research speed, and how much that particular combo stacks the deck in favor of an infernal rush.)
 
I made my tests on monarch with small map size, though I didn't know that the difficulty and map size influences research speed. I probably try to optimize my Basium rush now. My experiences with the Hyborem rush made it pretty clear that great prophets are superior to great sages in quick rushes to religious technologies. Although an academy could still be a good choice since the teching time should be a bit longer than the Hyborem rush.
 
One sage for the academy might be pay off, but a GP researches ~700 research points, a GS in a city produces 7 research points per round, therefore he need ~100 rounds to pay off. Even an academy in a second city won't pay off since the second greater person comes too late. Therfore 1 GS and 1 GP is the only possible alternative to 2 GPs.

Further, the research count isn't so much higher than the Hyborem rush since you don't need knowledge of the ether and way of the wicked. The required education can replace fishing or calendar for the gold income with cottages, so it's not really a burden.
The real problem are the mercurian gates which have to be built.
 
swapping over to Infernals + MP = OOS :cry:
At least that was back ages ago when I tried it out in MP and I've yet to give it another shot again.

Not sure if u can save and reload the saved game now though, but there's always that second issue---when playing at emperor difficulty with friends, the Infernals would be at Noble when you summon them.......so supposing that you manage to solve the OOS issue by reloading, you'd be stuck with Noble difficulty with your friends being at Emperor.... and one unfortunate AI on Emp. :lol:



But... about summoning Hyborem itself, Lanun is still a pretty decent starting civ to do so for a good rush. As mentioned as some posts above, I too prefer prepping the infernals with some useful techs before doing the pact even if it does delay it by a few turns.
Besides the few mentioned techs above, I prefer to "prep the world" too for Hyborem's arrival =P
I usually rush for trade asap after corruption and gift AV to everyone I've met around the world to turn majority of the civs evil. That would allow you to get much much more manes when you go on your rampage as Hybbie wiping them out =D
 
I've already summoned Basium in MP and the reloading wasn't a problem. No idea about the Noble thing though...

I don't see much purpose in delaying the infernals. The earlier they come the more powerfull they are compared to the other civs. Their greatest weapon is Hyborem itself. And the earlier he starts to get XP the faster he will grow into an almost unbeatable killing machine. They also start with greater person counter of zero, so it's good to build a GS very fast and build an academy for faster research. Though, usually I declare war with other civs before I switch to the infernals.
 
After you rush to Infernal Pact, do you usually declare on your former empire?

They're evil, so they'll make lots of tasty Manes and they have the Holy City (probably) and they have at least some decent land. What do you unholy devil spawn usually do here?

Also, if you are going to declare on your former empire, do usually cripple yourself by deleting high strength units (of you have any) on the turn before Infernal Pact is researched?
 
After you rush to Infernal Pact, do you usually declare on your former empire?

They're evil, so they'll make lots of tasty Manes and they have the Holy City (probably) and they have at least some decent land. What do you unholy devil spawn usually do here?
Of course. It's not wise to leave Stigmata on the Unborn in the hands of another civ after rushing AV. I lost my first "rush to Hyborem" game because I was nice to my former civ and AV hit 80%.

Also, if you are going to declare on your former empire, do usually cripple yourself by deleting high strength units (of you have any) on the turn before Infernal Pact is researched?
I usually delete all my units, after they have finished pillaging all my improvements the turn before Infernal Pact research is completed. I don't want them to beat me to Rosier the Fallen or the Infernal Grimoire.
 
After you rush to Infernal Pact, do you usually declare on your former empire?
It depends on where Hyborem appears, but to be honest I don't like to attack my 'creators'. Actually, I try to treat them as allies.


They're evil, so they'll make lots of tasty Manes and they have the Holy City (probably) and they have at least some decent land. What do you unholy devil spawn usually do here?
It depends on the religion and not the alignment in contrast to what the manual says. The big advantage of making a real Hyborem rush is that you are in no way dependent on getting manes. Hyborem is summoned with 2 settlers, peace with barbarians and a bunch of real bad asses. That makes two cities and a military strike force lead by a hero of demi god dimensions which is almost unfair at this early point of time. Land isn't very important since the spreading hell terrain around the cities destroys everything except gold mines and similar resources. The cities are better off with specialists anyway.


Also, if you are going to declare on your former empire, do usually cripple yourself by deleting high strength units (of you have any) on the turn before Infernal Pact is researched?
I only have 6 - 7 bloodpets at that time. All economic power is used for fast researching. It's a lot more fun to declare war with some other civs and then 'help' him with Hyborem.
 
Get Hall of Kings completed before you make the switch, and bring enough manes to your infernal cities so your cities are mainly composed of specialists. Think of them as monuments that also produce one hammer/turn.

You can reach cities that have 99 and more probably but usually I consider the sweet spot to be at 55-60 pop. Get all the priest/bard/merchant/engineer permitting buildings completed for cities that will produce Great People like diarrhea after a mexican buffet. Not even the Grigori have that kind of spawning rate...

Your military capital should have Prophecy of Ragnarok. By the 40th turn as Hyborem that city is only building units until Armageddon. Keep your Eidolon upgrades and purge the unfaithful from being completed until you're close to an AC of 60. I have noticed that the AI, even if they are all evil, will play Armageddon tug-of-war to avoid the counter reaching 60. Either they don't want you building Meshabber of Dis or they really fear Ars Moriendi but I did notice a sudden effort to bring the AC down when it reached 58-59.


If you're playing him the for the first time, Get yourself a Pangea map with a rocky climate and make all your opponents evil. Hyborem is really fun to play but you need to rig the game in your favor the first time at least because he is deceptively weak to start with as a civ and playing fallow civs takes some getting used to. You have shake off the habits you get from constantly playing with the healthy/happy aspiring "food needers", Imperial growth and urban development become counter-intuitive, guilds become a total waste of time, and cities are more often than not better razed than captured. Those are all things that easy to write and read but a little hard to learn and apply. It's the one civ I'd recommend everyone to play right after Calabim and Illians. When played properly, the whole planet gets consumed by the hell terrain that started from YOUR civ and demons rise from the earth to trample on every improvement and destroy every city save your own...gloating is very good for your health!
 
@citizenalex - great set of tips, but I don't understand this part:

"Imperial growth and urban development become counter-intuitive, guilds become a total waste of time, and cities are more often than not better razed than captured."

What do you mean when you say that guilds are a total waste of time? Are you talking about the wonders or the civic? I was under the impression that the Guilds Civic was basically a must-have for the infernals because it allows them to turn their manes into unlimited specialists.
 
A comment regarding guilds:

If you can capture or build the form of the titan, you can build units at level 4 in all cities with theocracy, apprenticeship, conquest, demon's altars, and form of the titan. This is especially useful for Hyborem because he has Summoner without Arcane - his mages are extremely powerful, but have to develop from either imps without potency or savants without channeling. It is worth considering apprenticeship over guilds for this reason. Even without the form of the titan, the last 2 xp from apprenticeship halves the time for a mage to mature (and allows instant mages in any city with a command post).
 
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