I Hate Elephants

Elephants always seem WAY stronger in games than they ever were historically, and aren't much for balance generally. They're actually less broken and annoying in V than other games because the strength differential isn't quite as bad, although they're STILL a bit too strong vs things like pikes.
 
it depends on what you were getting when you run into him. Archers don't seem to do crap but crossbows do pretty well. I'd imagine the longbows or chinese UU would do good too. I guess the Immortals would be all right too.
A frigate sure did a # on them though :p

What floored me was when a frigging elephant killed a fully healthy rifleman. I swore rather loudly.
 
Has been working fine for me. What's been the problem?
 
Fortified pikemen on a hill/forest: 27.5. Or pikemen with flanking bonuses: 21.5-23. Not enough to easily dominate, but pikemen are easier to build/buy.

But if they fortify I can move into position, then attack and retreat the next turn. Also, if your elephant has two upgrades, he's at +40%, which is 30.8, something that's not too far-fetched to expect in order to attack a fortified position.
 
I just had a bunch of Siamese elephants scare the you know what right out of me. I actually had Cavalry, rifelmen, and ARTILLERY in addition to my Chinese crossbows with two shots! And the elephants still gave me a run for my money and wound up killing WAY more troops than I thought they should. The artillery was only doing 3 or 4 damage and the cav was just dying attacking them--even when the elephants only had 1 or 2 hitpoints left. My riflemen were even coming close to dying when they attacked elephants. But, I guess it is true that you get more with a kind word and a gun, because eventually the guns won, but my troops were very nearly exhausted. I am glad no one else attacked me right after;-)
 
The 'phants eat Cavalry for breakfast. It gets ugly.
 
Cav has -50% against mounted units built in. And the elephants have a +50% bonus. Artillery shouldn't have much trouble handling them, though, at least not when properly upgraded.
 
Fortified pikemen on a hill/forest: 27.5. Or pikemen with flanking bonuses: 21.5-23. Not enough to easily dominate, but pikemen are easier to build/buy.

Problem with this is that units that are supposed to be hard counters really fall behind the units they counter when you start getting promotions/generals stacked up. A 22 strength elephant with a great general bonus is strength 27.5. A strength 10 pikeman with a great general and a 100% bonus against said elephant has strength 22.5, or at a 22% strength disadvantage. Add 15% for discipline, or a shock/drill promotion to both sides, and the elephant keeps getting double the bonus the pike gets. Since elephants promote from horsemen, it's not unreasonable to have shock/drill III by that point, and perhaps charge, blitz, or other high-end promotions.

So say both sides have drill III, a great general, and 15% from discipline. Sure one side or the other will likely have a promo advantage but we'll just assume here since the elephant is just as likely (or more likely, really) to have more promos than fewer. In that case, we have:

Pike: 10 str + 100% from vs. mounted + 15% from discipline + 25% from great general + 25% fortification + 25% rough + 75% drill III = 36.5 strength
Elephant: 22 str + 15% from discipline + 25% from great general + 75% from drill III = 47.3 strength

Now remember, with no bonuses, the pike only has a 10% strength disadvantage on the elephant. But, once you add in the modifiers that you're likely to be seeing by this point in the game, even if the elephant is attacking onto a fortified, rough terrain pike, it has a 30% strength advantage. And yes, pikes are easier to get than elephants, but with 1upt, greater numbers of weaker units is almost always a sure-loss strategy. Even if the elephants get ganged up on, that would result in the pikes forfeit the 50% bonus from fortification and rough terrain defense in the above calculation, making it 31.5 strength vs 47.3 strength, or a 50% strength deficit compared to the unit the pike's supposed to counter.

This also doesn't take into account any ranged units that would factor in. If you're not happy attacking into a fortified rough terrain counter unit and still having a 30% strength advantage and instead decide to let each side's ranged take shots, any archers/crossbows/catapults etc. on either side are going to be dealing way more damage to the 10-strength pikes (even if they're getting fortification bonuses that the elephants can't) way faster than to the 22-strength elephant. So the pikes can't really play a holdout game either.

IMO, this isn't as much a problem with elephants as it is with game mechanics. With additive % bonuses and low strength/high bonus counter units, the inevitable outcome is that as bonuses mount, the counter units will get crushed. There are a few ways to fix that, but all of them suck in some way. :p
 
When I played as Arabia I have a wonderful time with Siam Elephant. My camel archers killed all elephants without loses.
 
Crossbowmen seem to do disproportionate damage to Narusans Elephants. Don't know why but they do. Its what I use against an AI Narusan rush.

2-3 Crossbowmen with 2 Fortified pikeman/longwordmen makes Dumbo cry. Believe me.

Against a HUMAN opponent, well you better hope you get musket/riflmen soon....
 
Your best bet against elephants are probably crossbows - lots of them. Preferably upgraded from heavily promoted archers so that you have double attack and range. Cannons are also decent if you have promoted and fortified blockers in front.

Actually, if you play the Mongols then elephants will be a joke against promoted keshiks.
 
Spain kills Siam. I played a game, continents, Prince, standard speed and size. Siam was on another continent, and I kinda discovered them last, so they had TONS of elephants. I was going for a domination VC when I discovered the size of their army, and I just had 2 canons, some conquistadors, and one tercio. The elephants ran over my conquistadors, but it took three or four of 'em to wipe out my tercio, who, btw, had only been promoted twice. Still, that one tercio bought me enough time to build an army of those mount-shredders. No UU can take a hit from an elephant like that before tanks and panzers. I wonder how siphai would do?
 
Crossbowmen seem to do disproportionate damage to Narusans Elephants. Don't know why but they do. Its what I use against an AI Narusan rush.

2-3 Crossbowmen with 2 Fortified pikeman/longwordmen makes Dumbo cry. Believe me.

Against a HUMAN opponent, well you better hope you get musket/riflmen soon....

Stick with crossbowmen against human elephants. Phants can be online pretty soon(around turn 70 quick pace) and expect to receive a lot of them from an experimented player(markets on the way help a lot). Fortified pikemen are strong enough if you can hurt phants before they can attack.
 
Actually, if you play the Mongols then elephants will be a joke against promoted keshiks.

Keshiks and Camel archers are builded for this elephants. Against this UUs of Mongol and Arab simple knights are more affective than Siam elephants.
 
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