I hate god

[Stylesjl]

Humans have free will to do/say what we want. God does not choose to interfere in our decisions. What do you atheists not understand about that? It's really not that hard. We chose to break away into a life of sin.

BS. He did not do it. Humans did it. As someone said earlier, it's like saying the parent "made" their child's artwork. Doesn't work, does it?

There are no conditions in my statements. God made the World, creation, and he is all knowing. We broke away from his trust and sinned. He did not create sin.

Again i have to explain this to you. Omnipotence, and omniscience mean that free will is just not possible. God created us, and hence the cause of every action taken.

Why do I mock and deride the concept of religion and god? You might say such a thing is just a choice and that I have chosen to reject god. But my actions have a cause, i've always questioned everything and I demand relentless scientific evidence before I beleive in something. This "Cause" has created the "Effect" of me rejecting religion. So hence if one beleives in an all powerful god this god created the circumstances that made me come to reject religion.

And I already debunked the parent analogy. Parents are not all powerful beings, they cannot control their children absolutely nor the enviroment that also shapes them.

 

[Red Door]

How on Earth do you know?

Why do you wish to sound like you know more about a god than the average person?

I find it strange that an insignificant human on this world would pretend to have even the
slightest idea about a macro-cosmic being like a god...It just sounds like fantasy.

...

I know that we cannot know at the moment.

I know more about God because I know he exists. You just deny his existence without any real proof that he doesn't exist.

IT also sounds like fantasy that you deny something that cannot be proven false or true, or that you pretend to know something about something that you say doesn't exist.

 

[Red Door]

Again i have to explain this to you. Omnipotence, and omniscience mean that free will is just not possible. God created us, and hence the cause of every action taken.

Why do I mock and deride the concept of religion and god? You might say such a thing is just a choice and that I have chosen to reject god. But my actions have a cause, i've always questioned everything and I demand relentless scientific evidence before I beleive in something. This "Cause" has created the "Effect" of me rejecting religion. So hence if one beleives in an all powerful god this god created the circumstances that made me come to reject religion.

And I already debunked the parent analogy. Parents are not all powerful beings, they cannot control their children absolutely nor the enviroment that also shapes them.

Wrong, again. It means that God is all-powerful and that God is all-knowing. Once again, this is God. God gave us free will to do what we want. God did not influence our free will in any way, except in the writing of the Scriptures, but that's a different story for another day.

God gave you the free will to question him, and you have decided to question his existence and his power. Do not expect him to be looking kindly upon you when Humanity is done, but you made the choice to not have faith in his existence.

Again, God does not choose to interfere in our free will. He gave us the free grace of free will and the ability to use it. So, this analogy holds true still.

 

[Synobun]

Why hasn't this thread been locked yet? This thread will cause much tension among the OT and have a flame war among it...

 

[puglover]

Why hasn't this thread been locked yet? This thread will cause much tension among the OT and have a flame war among it...

Isn't tension the point? We're relatively civilized I'd say.

 

[GenMarshall]

Isn't tension the point? We're relatively civilized I'd say.

I do sense there is tenstion between the Hardcore Atheists and the Theists.

 

[puglover]

I do sense there is tenstion between the Hardcore Atheists and the Theists.

But how is anyone going to learn without tension between worldviews?

 

[Stylesjl]

Tension is neccessary. It keeps people questioning their beleifs (or in some cases reaffirms them)

 

[GenMarshall]

But how is anyone going to learn without tension between worldviews?

The tension causes people to react irrational and defensive. Even if I do progress and change to become a more tolerant, rational, and moderate Catholic. Curt will still see me as a schoolyard kid regardless if I mature and look into other views.

Discussing religion often leads to ranting and raving. And carrying on like emotional children.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

I do sense there is tenstion between the Hardcore Atheists and the Theists.

I do sense there is a tension between theists and anyone who doesn't surrender to their conformity and believe as they tell you that you should, and act as they tell you that you must.

I think the theist phrase for those who prefer to think for themselves is "godless heathen".

 

[GenMarshall]

I think the theist phrase for those who prefer to think for themselves is "godless heathen".

I personally don't consider people who think for themselves as "Godless heathen", I even think for myself and yet I am a Roman Catholic.

 

[puglover]

I do sense there is a tension between theists and anyone who doesn't surrender to their conformity and believe as they tell you that you should, and act as they tell you that you must.

I think the theist phrase for those who prefer to think for themselves is "godless heathen".

Well, aren't we cheerful today.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

The tension causes people to react irrational and defensive. Even if I do progress and change to become a more tolerant, rational, and moderate Catholic. Curt will still see me as a schoolyard kid regardless if I mature and look into other views.

There are degrees of conformity. If you do progress and become more tolerant and rational, even if you remain a Catholic, you still have progressed. You may even be able to convince Curt that you moving in the proper direction.

Discussing religion often leads to ranting and raving. And carrying on like emotional children.

Yes, but it can still be fun.


--------

Well, aren't we cheerful today.

I'm just a happy guy, what else can I say?

 

[GenMarshall]

There are degrees of conformity. If you do progress and become more tolerant and rational, even if you remain a Catholic, you still have progressed. You may even be able to convince Curt that you moving in the proper direction.

I still don't know how to convince others, like Curt or anyone, that I have progressed. Then again, I am also on the other hand afraid people will see me as a flip-flopper and just change my opinions at whilm and by influence of others.

Yes, but it can still be fun.

Dont know what planet you came from . But I dont enjoy discussing and debating religions if they all lead to insults, flames, trolls, and disrespect. I just dont like seeing my faith being jabbed and riticuled. Even the generalization that religious people are irrational strikes disrespect to me since it implies (to me) unintelligent and dumb. Even though I am a rational religious person.

 

[CurtSibling]

Why hasn't this thread been locked yet? This thread will cause much tension among the OT and have a flame war among it...

Perhaps it is still open due to the decent level of debate in it?

No-one likes a politically correct chicken little!

 

[CurtSibling]

I still don't know how to convince others, like Curt or anyone, that I have progressed. Then again, I am also on the other hand afraid people will see me as a flip-flopper and just change my opinions at whilm and by influence of others.

Convince me of what?
To follow your religion?

Tell me, why is it so important to you that I have to convert?
Since you think your 'soul' is safe, why be a pest and bother other people?
If you say it is because your religion says so, then that is like declaring war.

And what if you are wrong and I am right?

What do you do then?

Hmmm?

 

[GenMarshall]

Convince me of what? To follow your religion?

No, mainly to convince you that I am not like thoes other religious people that you generalize as mindless sheep followers.

Tell me, why is it so important to you that I have to convert?

I dont see it that important to me that you have to convert. You are the one who can chose to convert.

Since you think your 'soul' is safe, why be a pest and bother other people?

Its actualy a comission to Christians to go out and spread the Gospel of the Lord and the Good news. I dont pest and bother other people. I just tell the facts about my faith and only leave it up to the holy spirit and the individual if they want to convert or not.

If you say it is because your religion says so, then that is like declaring war.

I dont see it as "declaring war" against atheism nor hosting a crusade against atheism

And what if you are wrong and I am right?
What do you do then?
Hmmm?

Its better to take pascal's wager than to spend eternaty separated from God in hell if the world religions are right in that there is a God.

What would I do if I am wrong and you are right in terms of God not existing? I would be very depressed and look to another religion like Buddhism or some other non-Proselytizing Religion to avoid any future strife with atheists. I am a very religious and spiritual person and it would be devastating to me to ever find out if the existence of God is a reality.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

No, mainly to convince you that I am not like thoes other religious people that you generalize as mindless sheep followers.

The best way would be to not care about whether Curt thinks you are a sheep follower. Caring so dearly about what others think without having enough confidence in one's own opinions is what makes one a sheep follower.

 

[Stylesjl]

Its better to take pascal's wager than to spend eternaty separated from God in hell if the world religions are right in that there is a God.

Ah Pascal's wager. So many flaws

First off, god might actually like atheists. Illogical as that sounds, it's not fallsifiable. So by beleiving in god you might be setting yourself up for hell!

Second of all. Pascals Wager relies on a lie. Converting to a religion wouldn't work for me or Curt because we simply don't beleive. Any attempt to pretend we beleived based on the wager would simply be a lie. And from what I hear god doesn't like being lied to

And finally, if you pick the wrong god(s) then you are in trouble

 

[Old Spice]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.