I hate natural wonders

[joyous_gard]

Potosi is 10 gold for 0 food, and you need to get the pop to work that tile. It's definately strong, but there is a trade-off. The trade-off doesn't exist for FoY, you lose 1 tile and get the equivalent of 2 happy resources and superhealing units... Silly. I think 5 happy minus the healing bonus would be... OK.

I agree with this. I had potosi very early once and it was good. I wasn't going in the red very easily, but I also had to grow that city so it took some time before the tile was a real boon and by the time it was a boon, other people's cities were coming online providing luxury gold/food/hammers.

It also exists and I had never heard of it so that is cool. How many other natural wonders exist that I never heard of? I guess none since they made El Dorado and Fountain of Youth natural wonders.

 

[Babri]

Removing these wonders from the game or have such option would not be a good way to fix it. A better way would be to place these OP wonders on unhabitated continents. This would make colonization more fun. And getting like 500 gold in Renisance Era from exploration won't be OP either.

 

[roberteriksson]

I like them, even the more extreme ones. Better to have it matter somewhat where you settle as opposed to out-of-the-box civ where every site site was basically the same.

 

[cman2010]

I like them, even the more extreme ones. Better to have it matter somewhat where you settle as opposed to out-of-the-box civ where every site site was basically the same.

yeah it definately helps the immersion to have fake natural wonders like the fountain of youth.

 

[lschnarch]

yeah it definately helps the immersion to have fake natural wonders like the fountain of youth.

Wait until we get the "Garden of Eden" and "Elysian Fields"....

 

[cman2010]

Wait until we get the "Garden of Eden" and "Elysian Fields"....

awsome.

 

[aatami]

I had the fountain of youth and city of gold in mind.

Okay, yes.

 

[Deussu]

Hmm, immersion. I'd imagine it's hurt more by having George Washington or whoever start a civilization around 4000 BC. And the leader is immortal! And it takes possibly thousands of years for a scout to reach a relatively remote location. </snide remark>

Personally I find the new natural wonders exceptionally annoying as I favor playing multiplayer games on quick pace. El Dorado gives 500 gold regardless of era (it should be tied to era!), which enables for auto-victory via immediate settler purchase.

I believe there is a way to manually disable those few natural wonders. I'll look into that. Otherwise I'll just downgrade Potosi to 7 gold, FoY's happiness to 5, and remove El Dorado's initial gold entirely and increase culture output to 6 culture. Gotta test that...

 

[joyous_gard]

Hmm, immersion. I'd imagine it's hurt more by having George Washington or whoever start a civilization around 4000 BC. And the leader is immortal! And it takes possibly thousands of years for a scout to reach a relatively remote location. </snide remark>
.

This comeback is lame. I have heard it a lot. I see you have your snide remark on. But it's time to call this comeback lame. You should probably surround that snide in /lame or /ignorant

Here is a simple and obvious difference:

George Washington existed.
El Dorado never existed.

Now on a very simple level, some things existed on Earth, some things didn't exist on Earth.

Immersion in V is a much bigger issue than the supporters realize. It's kind of like color-blindness. Some people see it, some people don't and it's still an identifiable color to both groups.

It's a problem in V because this was never a problem in IV. Find an immersion thread in IV. I don't believe one could exist. Soon, I will be eating crow but I have faith in the game.

It's an easy fix "Fantasy Wonders" on/off. If they feel they made a good design decision, then they can leave them on by default and only those that are sad can turn them off. That way, they are saving face and providing a balance button for MP as well as a realists button for immersion players.

 

[masonryan]

Hmm, immersion. I'd imagine it's hurt more by having George Washington or whoever start a civilization around 4000 BC. And the leader is immortal! And it takes possibly thousands of years for a scout to reach a relatively remote location. </snide remark>

I have heard this before and to me it is a really lame argument, civ games have always been about immersion, despite the leader heards remaining the same the main problem I have with this civ is the fact that the leaders remain in there same attires the whole game I prefered civ 3 where they changed through the eras but I guess the devs could not be bothered to include that.

 

[UWHabs]

While I think they went a bit overboard on the new natural wonders (CdP should be maybe 7 gold, FoY probably 5 happiness and if you want, allow units next to it it to heal at double rate, but not forever, and ElDorado maybe 250 gold), they do add some "what-if" flavour to the game.

I mean, in the original colonization, I LOVED finding the Fountain of Youth. Was it realistic to history? No, but it was damn fun.

So these overpowered wonders, I would definitely say they should be illegal for any "competitive" gaming (multi-player, HoF type games), but if I'm playing on my own? It's just something cool when you run into it. I definitely like how they're not around every game, but overall, just enjoy the bonuses.

 

[masonryan]

to fix this they need an option to disable the fake wounders but keep the real wounders in.

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

I have heard this before and to me it is a really lame argument, civ games have always been about immersion, despite the leader heards remaining the same the main problem I have with this civ is the fact that the leaders remain in there same attires the whole game I prefered civ 3 where they changed through the eras but I guess the devs could not be bothered to include that.

No, sorry, the 'immersion' argument is always lame.

Either for or against.

People get angry with a feature of the game, and that's fine. But when people start busting out "Plus, it's not realistic and it breaks my immersion" - that gets silly.

The bottom line is that when you dislike a feature, it breaks your immersion. When you like it, it either doesn't bother you, or you are willing to rationalize it so it doesn't break your immersion.

'Realism' is silly to talk about - the entire game is abstracted so far beyond reality and always has been - so the realism or immersion is entirely your responsibility. If it breaks your immersion, it's because you stopped immersing yourself.

edit: As for the actual topic, I don't really feel one way or the other. It seems like it would be an easy toggle to implement, but I think Spain is incredibly fun to play as because it makes geography matter, and you can get some ridiculously cool cities with those bonuses.

 

[Celevin]

The bottom line is that when you dislike a feature, it breaks your immersion. When you like it, it either doesn't bother you, or you are willing to rationalize it so it doesn't break your immersion.

You summed up my feelings about it really well.

EDIT: About immersion. I still hate El Dorado and the Fountain of Youth for strictly gameplay reasons.

 

[joyous_gard]

No, sorry, the 'immersion' argument is always lame.

Either for or against.

People get angry with a feature of the game, and that's fine. But when people start busting out "Plus, it's not realistic and it breaks my immersion" - that gets silly.

The bottom line is that when you dislike a feature, it breaks your immersion. When you like it, it either doesn't bother you, or you are willing to rationalize it so it doesn't break your immersion.

'Realism' is silly to talk about - the entire game is abstracted so far beyond reality and always has been - so the realism or immersion is entirely your responsibility. If it breaks your immersion, it's because you stopped immersing yourself.

edit: As for the actual topic, I don't really feel one way or the other. It seems like it would be an easy toggle to implement, but I think Spain is incredibly fun to play as because it makes geography matter, and you can get some ridiculously cool cities with those bonuses.

It is flat wrong... to even include El Dorado as a Natural Wonder in the civilopedia is wrong. It is a falsehood. It didn't used to be a natural wonder, it wasn't almost a natural wonder, it will not ever be a natural wonder. It is ignorant. It promotes ignorance. It is complete farce.

Movies of great battles are meant to mimic life. When you see a guy in a World War II movie wearing Reebok Pumps, you stop and say "What the eff is going on here?" You are less immersed. The same holds true for some people regarding these natural wonders in Civ V.

I can overlook Washington in BC because that is part of the game. Natural wonders a novelty piece of something from the world we live in. The planet Earth. They are called natural wonders because they occurred naturally on the Earth. You guys do understand that, right?

Prior to this version, the series did a good job to make a fun game and provide some information about the history of civilization. This game goes out of its way to promote ignorance. I know this is true because El Dorado does not exist. It's not an oversight or a bug. It is deliberately ignorant. The guy was a effing history major! They could have done anything. They could have made a separate label for non natural wonders. They could have added real natural wonders. Instead they went for ignorance.

Needless to mention, that was their idea of improving gameplay and making for a more enjoyable game. Add some natural wonders. Wow! The least they could have done is add some natural wonders and not some thing from the days when Spanish Ignorance plagued the New World.

Hiawatha, might be fictional. I don't think anyone knows. He was still a revered leader of the Iroquois. There is a major difference there for me and I can't say why. I don't know how to express it.

Immersion in movies, in art, in video games exists. It's different for different people. The argument has been expressed in many ways and some people see it, some don't. They used actual things from Earth because the game modeled civilization. This isn't Stronghold Legends. Stronghold Legends promoted the use of fantasy units at least. Civ Legends. Spawn Merlin from a CS, while you are adding new gamebreaking content. Maybe he can count as a settler which settles "Magic City" and that city is invulnerable to attack. It adds an element of mystery and intrigue to Civ. You know, because that's all that was missing in Civ V. A little excitement and mystery. LOL at CIV:Legends.

Like I said, they can save face and have Fake Natural Wonders "On" by default, but the button really should be there. Call them whatever they want... Fake NW, Make-believe NW, but the button should be on there... they could also do "True Wonders Only On/Off" etc.

 

[Civsassin]

It's a game gents. FoY, El Dorado, whatever. It's a game!!!

To me the natural wonders are simply a game element. If one is within my borders, it's good to be me. If one is within an enemy civs borders, it sucks to be me. If one is near my borders, it becomes a game decision to settle near it or not to. That's how it boils down. Don't make it into a bigger deal than it actually is. Try yoga and health foods. They can help put the mind at ease.

 

[masonryan]

No, sorry, the 'immersion' argument is always lame.

Either for or against.

People get angry with a feature of the game, and that's fine. But when people start busting out "Plus, it's not realistic and it breaks my immersion" - that gets silly.

The bottom line is that when you dislike a feature, it breaks your immersion. When you like it, it either doesn't bother you, or you are willing to rationalize it so it doesn't break your immersion.

'Realism' is silly to talk about - the entire game is abstracted so far beyond reality and always has been - so the realism or immersion is entirely your responsibility. If it breaks your immersion, it's because you stopped immersing yourself.

edit: As for the actual topic, I don't really feel one way or the other. It seems like it would be an easy toggle to implement, but I think Spain is incredibly fun to play as because it makes geography matter, and you can get some ridiculously cool cities with those bonuses.

your whole post is lame immersion is part of many games, the fact that you cant figure that out is just sad. Moderator Action: This last comment is not acceptable here.

 

[JohnnyW]

It's a game gents. FoY, El Dorado, whatever. It's a game!!!

To me the natural wonders are simply a game element.

Following this logic you will gladly accept any nonsensical thing they put into the game and enjoy it because "It's just a game!!!"

I think you are part of civ5's target audience.

 

[Civsassin]

Following this logic you will gladly accept any nonsensical thing they put into the game and enjoy it because "It's just a game!!!"

I think you are part of civ5's target audience.

My definition of nonsensical and yours are two very different things. CiV is historically accurate to a point. It wasn't meant to be a perfect representation of reality. If I didn't enjoy the game, I wouldn't play it, AND I always remember that it is just a game.

 

[JohnnyW]

My definition of nonsensical and yours are two very different things.

If you don't see adding and listing the "Fountain of Youth" as a "natural wonder" to be nonsensical, then yes, you are correct that we have very, very different definitions of the word.