I hate prophets and missionaries

[Zaimejs]

I really hate the fact that I can't just expel prophet and missionaries without causing a war. There isn't even a space on diplomacy to say, "Keep your pagan religion out of may Taoism, Beeetches."

I end up starting a war because I don't want my holy city converted.

I did manage a good strategy against this in one game where I just surrounded my city with units to keep the prophet away.

I understand that an inquisitor will scare them away? Is that right?

I want to destroy Pacal every single time because he has this squirrely little civilization with no army and lots of wonders and fricking religion. Makes me RAGE when I'm just trying to be peaceful.

 

[Dig-Doug]

To stop invading religions just put an inquisitor in each city(after you get rid of any other religions in that city with another inquisitor). This prevents any relgion from being put into your cities.

Also works for other civ's holy cities that you conquer, just use a inquisitor to get rid of the holy city's religion, then place a inquisitor into the city and hit the F key.

 

[ense7en]

Yeah it's annoying.

Don't give AI open borders (their missionaries may die of attrition before they make it to your cities), and definitely have units around (or workers/great people) to be able to make a chain to stop the prophet spam, etc.

I have to agree though, it irritates me to the point where i often end up attempting to wipe said AI off the face of the map LOL.

Inquisitors will block them from converting, but i want to point out that CONTRARY to misinformation i've seen posted here, they will convert other cities without touching the capital, so while it's most likely they will try to convert the cap first, they will convert other cities before if they can sometimes as well.

If you have enough units to slow down the prophet, ideally you can race the inquisitor over to the area where they have sent the prophet/missionary before they hit the city.

 

[ense7en]

There is. Under "Discuss". I think it may only light up if they've converted one of your cities or have missionaries in your land.

Yeah it's only there AFTER they've already spread their pagan religion into one of your cities. Really needs to be an option to tell them to eff off BEFORE they actually convert a city...not that it would stop them, but it should actually give them a diplo penalty the other AI can see if they ignore your requests...

 

[FeiLing]

"Have an inquisitor in each of your cities"... Sure thing! Only costs a few thousand faith and is even more annoying as you can't build/buy civilian units any longer unless you move the inquisitors around. Also your saved up great people need a safe spot too...

The best way to fight enemy great prophets is -reconverting your cities with your own great prophets. Awful implementation of religion mechanics.

Solution: Inquisitors act as Prophet Hunters - You move them onto the enemy Missionaries/Prophets to expel/kill them.

 

[Zaimejs]

yes... I thought that was built-into the game. I remember reading that somewhere about inquisitors... that was their purpose. You should definitely be able to expunge unwanted prophets... although, historically, it seems that if a religion really wants to get spread, it gets spread.

 

[Dig-Doug]

oh sure! build GP's which get more and more costly and eventually can't be built at all where as Inquisitors can be built all game long..

How often does someone actually build workers and settlers after the first 5 cities or so..???

Your right building GP's is an awefull way to go. They should be used for getting more cities initially then use missionaries where needed. (The way it is supposed to be that's why the GPS are so expensive and the missionaries and inquisitors are so cheap...

 

[Browd]

You don't need an inquisitor in every city, and they don't have to be in the city center -- they can be in a nearby tile to deter GPrs and Missionaries. If you have a decent road network one or two inquisitors can cover 4-5 cities with ease. Buy an inquisitor or two before you leave Medieval (cost 200 faith each--can be a great investment).

But keep two things in mind: Inquisitors do nothing to combat passive spread from religious pressure. If you are experiencing massive religious pressure from your neighbors, you need to actively convert their cities to balance the pressure.

Second, you don't need inquisitors at all if you are the dominant religion exerting massive pressure on surrounding cities. Yes, it's annoying for an enemy to use a GPr to blast your holy city, but if you have 15-20 cities nearby that are still your religion, your holy city will be experiencing 90-120+ pressure, which, together with the holy city's own internal pressure, should result in it converting back to your religion quite quickly. In the meantime, you get the benefits in that city of whatever pantheon and follower beliefs the other religion provides. In some cases, I've been able to buy additional religious buildings in my holy city or pre-industrial military units or some other useful goodies.

 

[Dig-Doug]

...but if you have 15-20 cities nearby...

Who places 15-20 cities 3-5 of your own and you can win ALL games, and those cities are not necessarily going to be "close by" as you'll be more than likely to put them down where there are resources that you need. This usually means 7-10 spaces apart on a standard sized map.

No other religion can get into a city with an Inquisitor of your faith in it. It does not matter whether it is from missionaries, GP's, or push from other cities. They block all other religions

I used this technique in my VLP with a capitol of an AI on my continent. Placed an inquisitor in that Hole City and his holy city did not spread it's own religion at all for the rest of the game, just mine.(one inquisitor per each of his cities prevents all incursions)

 

[Greizer85]

Who places 15-20 cities

OT, but I loved Civ III where additional cities came at no extra costs (apart from Settlers ofc). I once had ~200 on a Huge world map, half of which were made just to cover all of Siberia. They were all named "Snow Filler #xxx", for that special immersive, grand sweeping imperial feel.

OT (who thought up these abbreviations? a committee?): Any mechanic which is not tied to actual combat and where you have to move actual units around sucks, period. Spies, missionaries, hell even workers should be abstracted to screens etc. Civ V got this right with spies but missed the ball with the other 'civilian' units (ok ok, so spies are not exactly civilians, you know what I mean ). Oh, and don't get me started on that nonsense where you can't buy a unit in a city if it has a garrison unit in it... Goes real swell with that policy that gives a culture bonus for units that are stationed in cities. Nothing like moving that garrison out every 5 turns to buy a tank or whatever.

 

[civ54lyfe]

I really hate the fact that I can't just expel prophet and missionaries without causing a war. There isn't even a space on diplomacy to say, "Keep your pagan religion out of may Taoism, Beeetches."

I end up starting a war because I don't want my holy city converted.

I did manage a good strategy against this in one game where I just surrounded my city with units to keep the prophet away.

I understand that an inquisitor will scare them away? Is that right?

I want to destroy Pacal every single time because he has this squirrely little civilization with no army and lots of wonders and fricking religion. Makes me RAGE when I'm just trying to be peaceful.

+1 and I lol'ed.

oh, I had proposed an option for this here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=483847

 

[Browd]

Who places 15-20 cities 3-5 of your own and you can win ALL games, and those cities are not necessarily going to be "close by" as you'll be more than likely to put them down where there are resources that you need. This usually means 7-10 spaces apart on a standard sized map.

No other religion can get into a city with an Inquisitor of your faith in it. It does not matter whether it is from missionaries, GP's, or push from other cities. They block all other religions

I used this technique in my VLP with a capitol of an AI on my continent. Placed an inquisitor in that Hole City and his holy city did not spread it's own religion at all for the rest of the game, just mine.(one inquisitor per each of his cities prevents all incursions)

By 15-20 cities, I meant cities of your religion. City states, other civs and your own cities. Not unusual to have 15-20 cities in range of most continental cities (unless you are tucked into a corner).

Inquisitors do not combat other religions' city-based pressure. If there are 5 cities of another religion within range of your city, your city will experience 30 pressure, whether you have an Inquisitor there or not.

 

[Zaimejs]

+1 and I lol'ed.

oh, I had proposed an option for this here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=483847

That would be a simple/good solution.

I also would really like the option to see all foreign movement near my borders... if I knew a missionary or prophet was in my borders, then I could respond.

 

[krc]

No other religion can get into a city with an Inquisitor of your faith in it. It does not matter whether it is from missionaries, GP's, or push from other cities. They block all other religions.

This is not correct. Religion can spread via pressure from other cities even if an inquisitor is present. In one (small continents) game, I settled a city at the southern tip of a continent occupied by the Celts in order to claim Sri Pada. I sent a missionary and an inquisitor along with my settler, established my religion there with the missionary, and then planted the inquisitor in the city to protect it. The pressure from the Celts still eventually converted my city to their religion, and I had to use the inquisitor to remove the Celt religion (at least temporarily).

 

[Browd]

krc is correct. Inquisitors have no effect on passive religious city pressure. They just deter GPrs and Missionaries from trying to actively convert their city, and to purge other religions from a city you won if it is converted (either by active spread by a GPr or Missionary or as a result of city pressure).

 

[Smokeybear]

Solution: Inquisitors act as Prophet Hunters - You move them onto the enemy Missionaries/Prophets to expel/kill them.

Now that idea I really like! I'd pay to see that capability added to the game. Excellent. Enemy missionaries/prophets are an offensive unit- particularly the prophets, which have no attrition mechanic to hold them back. They invade your territory and convert your cities in order to weaken you and strengthen themselves- don't get more offensive than that. Whatever minor benefits you may get from it, don't come close to making up for what the founder usually gets, particularly if they are the big-dog runaway or potentially could become one. So make the Inquisitor more than just a reactionary, waste-a-bunch-of-faith-to-fix-what's-already-been-ruined kind of unit, and let them hunt down and forcefully expel (or, much preferrably, KILL) prophets and missionaries, with no diplomatic hit. Wandering prophets certainly didn't get any free-pass in foreign lands in history, they shouldn't in CiV either.

 

[Ajuga]

They really should not be able to enter rival territory unless you have open borders.
Either that or you can kill them on sight with inquisitors like mentioned above without getting a diplomatic penalty.

 

[Adjuvant]

2 inquisitor bought in the renaissance to industrial era, moved around strategically, will do alot to deter enemy proselytes; likely even more than taking the diplo hit telling them to bug off.

On a side note, if this is an extreme expenditure for you... if your religion is existing only "by the seat of your pants" with so little faith income you'd consider this expensive, you might consider next game going either religion-less or with a bit more religion investment. It's a bit like pissing in the wind and you "could" have spent that time/those resources making 5 or 7 extra military and just freaking run them over in the first place.

 

[civ54lyfe]

OK, current game:

100AD: I convert an Ethopian city with a GPro (across the continent, long long walk). Next Turn, Ethopia tells me that he doesn't appreciate my faith units. I'm like cool, no more.

>>800 years later... and this is all true ... Ethopia proceeds to move in THREE consecutive missionaries into my core cities. I start a war with him on the first two occasions. I didn't want this war, but I could NOT "Discuss" with him via Diplomacy "don't bring your missionaries here" until his missionaries actually had already spread faith! This is important and you're about to find out why...

On his third attempt (and almost my 3rd unwanted and unnecessary war with him) over another missionary trying to walk into my core cities, I just sat back and watched for when he'd spread faith. What did he do? He proceeded to walk into and through 2 cities, didn't spread faith, and booked out of my territory. I never saw an Ethiopian missionary again.

>>>20 turns later, I kill an Ethiopian spy in the core city that his missionary last walked through. Yeah. So it's not that only they use the faith units to start unnecessary wars (and yes, I understand that it is AI and probably they're just "der" about the whole thing.. I get that), BUT also they specifically use these faith units to spot your cities for espionage.

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Bottom damn line, we need a Diplo discussion option for whenever you see a faith unit traipsing through your territory to tell that player "get the hell out" AND you need to see foreign faith unit movements in your territory in the first place. It's important to see that.


It is NOT ENOUGH to only be only the Diplo option AFTER the unit has spread faith.

 

[Adjuvant]

I know what you mean... it's annoying when they're aggressive. I respect your opinion and disagree that more is necessary.

Prophets and missionaries are civilian units. They cannot "hop" military or other civilian units so it's pretty easy to box them in, then further move your inq's along your own roads quickly to prevent conversion.

Further, if you do not share open border, missionaries take damage per turn in your territory, so they'll die before they get anything done when/if constructively blocked...

It's a cool side-war, like a cold war, and I like the mechanic. Anyway it's not so huge of a deal if they "do" convert a city... you might lose a little happiness, a little production, but hey, with your existing religious pressure and your own popped missionary/inquisitor, problem solved, right?

I just don't think a mechanism wherein you can totally "lock down" the propensity for this action is in order.