I keep getting my butt whooped

[Bamboocha]

Hey there guys,

I'm a first time poster here . I made this account to ask some of the experts here some advice on Civ V because there's always one darned problem I keep getting across in Civ V. The highest I've ever gone is king level (with a great ammount of difficulty) and I've recently tried to start a few emperor level campaigns with Caeser Augustus. I start the game by making a city on a hill, setting my research towards iron working (so I can get my legionaires) and producing a scout. After the scout I make a monument and after that settlers so I can found a new city. Then I start building as much buildings as possible in Rome so I can make them cheaper for my other city. However, there is a problem: by the time I got about two cities standing (my army consisted of two warriors then), Nobunaga decides it's a good time to start a war. I'm attempting to beef up my army by now, which means producing an additional warrior and upgrading all warriors to legionaires (and building walls for all my cities) but Nobunaga doesn't attack. Then suddenly Napoleon joins in on the fun with a large army of mostly warriors, but he also has a few archers and two or three units of swordsmen, he completely whooped me to next week and took one of my cities. This is where I decided to ragequit.

My question, in short, is this: how do I produce a sizeable army, preferably capable of some early expansionist wars and/or capable of defending me against agressive early-era opponents, without compromising my city advancement?

EDIT: Another problem is that often, even on King level, I find that one opponent (usually Darius of Persia) has INSANE ammounts of golds, like 22k gold or something. How on earth does he get such high ammounts of gold? Every time I get enough money to ally a city-state, he just outdoes me and steals my allies away.

 

[RedRover57]

Depending on the layout of the map you may need to build more units for defense early. Several archers can normally stop an early warrior rush by the AI. So if you meet a civ like France or Aztecs in your first 10 turns then you know to research Archery ASAP because they will DoW you early every time if they are close.

 

[OmegaKabob]

I agree with RedRover. And Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Bamboocha]

Depending on the layout of the map you may need to build more units for defense early. Several archers can normally stop an early warrior rush by the AI. So if you meet a civ like France or Aztecs in your first 10 turns then you know to research Archery ASAP because they will DoW you early every time if they are close.

I assume DoW means Declaration of War?
Hmm, I guess that's a good idea: build some archers as soon as you see a civ that might be agressive. However, this does compromise my building advancement, right? Archers take a whoopin' 10 turns to make that early in the game.

I agree with RedRover. And Welcome to the Forum!

Thank you I hope I'll enjoy my stay here

 

[TommyVern]

Welcome to the forums.

Great work bee-lining to Iron working. What you want to do is work it out so when you discover Iron working, you take the policy in liberty that gives you the free settler. With that settler, found a city near some iron, preferably more than 2 iron, but take what you can find to start. Meanwhile, you should be building four to five warriors, so as soon as you work that iron, you can upgrade your warriors to legionnaires.

At this point, when you have a solid standing army, you can go ahead and start building in Rome.

 

[Bamboocha]

Welcome to the forums.

Great work bee-lining to Iron working. What you want to do is work it out so when you discover Iron working, you take the policy in liberty that gives you the free settler. With that settler, found a city near some iron, preferably more than 2 iron, but take what you can find to start. Meanwhile, you should be building four to five warriors, so as soon as you work that iron, you can upgrade your warriors to legionnaires.

At this point, when you have a solid standing army, you can go ahead and start building in Rome.

So after founding rome, my building production should be:
-Scout
-Five warriors
-Buildings (in what order?)

Correct?

 

[joncnunn]

Sounds like your building too many buildings too soon in Rome for the map type.

Wait til after the first successful war to build some of them.

As to cash management: Sell useless stuff to the AI; for as much cash upfront as possible as the AI insists on getting a discount when it pays GPT.
On normal speed without negative modifiers that is 50 gold for open borders, 45 gold per resource, and 240 gold per luxury.

 

[Civsassin]

The problem with building a large military up front is that you won't have the gold to support it, and you will fall behind in tech quickly. One solution is to attack the tradition tree heavily, and hit Oligarchy ASAP. With Oligarchy and a couple of defenders, you can fend off a pretty good sized warrior/archer rush. Get you library up as soon as possible. Stay with a single city for a while until you can get the NC in place. At least get your library built before you settle, so your other library builds will be faster. Additionally, the SP that gets you a culture building in your first four cities will save you from having to build your first four monuments, and you can go straight to building libraries in the new cities. This is especially important if you decided not to go NC first. Once you finish tradition, each of your cities will get 2 additional food, and your capital will be getting four. Add a granary and watermill, and maybe even the HG, and you will have powerful growth that will allow you to keep up and surpass the AI with tech.

 

[Bamboocha]

The problem with building a large military up front is that you won't have the gold to support it, and you will fall behind in tech quickly. One solution is to attack the tradition tree heavily, and hit Oligarchy ASAP. With Oligarchy and a couple of defenders, you can fend off a pretty good sized warrior/archer rush. Get you library up as soon as possible. Stay with a single city for a while until you can get the NC in place. At least get your library built before you settle, so your other library builds will be faster. Additionally, the SP that gets you a culture building in your first four cities will save you from having to build your first four monuments, and you can go straight to building libraries in the new cities. This is especially important if you decided not to go NC first. Once you finish tradition, each of your cities will get 2 additional food, and your capital will be getting four. Add a granary and watermill, and maybe even the HG, and you will have powerful growth that will allow you to keep up and surpass the AI with tech.

What do SP, NC and HG stand for?

 

[LostInTime]

The problem with building a large military up front is that you won't have the gold to support it

Sell luxuries, sell some excess strategic resources, sell open borders to everyone. Gold for army is easy to come by. At least on higher difficulties the AI is stacked with gold, so it's there for you to grab. Going for Oligarchy early on is a waste, and it won't save you more than 1-2 GPT in the start, and you get that easily from selling luxuries etc.

 

[BigChiefLizzy]

SP = Social Policy
NC = National College (Good early game science boost)
HG = Hanging Gardens (World Wonder, gives a good food/growth boost.)

 

[Civsassin]

Sell luxuries, sell some excess strategic resources, sell open borders to everyone. Gold for army is easy to come by. At least on higher difficulties the AI is stacked with gold, so it's there for you to grab. Going for Oligarchy early on is a waste, and it won't save you more than 1-2 GPT in the start, and you get that easily from selling luxuries etc.

Oligarchy early is primarily for the defensive ability of doubling your city's damage. You can easily destroy a warrior/archer per turn with Oligarchy and one garrisoned archer. The Tradition branch is very powerful considering the extra food in the capital and then per each new city once you complete the branch. The other problem on higher difficulties is that the DoW will often come before you have any of your land developed, so you don't have an opportunity to sell resources.

It's not the only answer, but it is one that I've used successfully at Emperor / Immortal levels. I haven't yet tried a Diety game, but I have enough difficulty with Immortal to wait a while for that.

 

[basta]

With Rome I'd go with the Liberty tree: free worker, free settler, golden age, + production, + happy, then choose a Great engineer to build the best available wonder. The OP's instincts are right: Rome is expansive and Tradition is for small empires.

If you decide to build the NC for a tech boost, then take the golden age before the free settler, so that your build time for the NC is shortened. Buy, don't build your monument with your first gold to keep the crucial early SPs rolling in on time, and if you get some wheat build a granery after the worker so that you have the extra food to run on production in Rome.

Hard-build your first worker right after your scout; the second one comes free. If you go for NC, both can fill out all the tiles around the capital so that you can send them off later with your settlers: your 2nd & 3rd cities will have production from the start.

Beeline iron for your legions, but also make sure to get archery pretty early along the way to defend yourself from an early rush. Archers are dirt cheap--200 gold--and with 2 or 3 you can fight off any early warrior rush. Don't bother hard-building them; it's better to rushbuy them by selling horses you won't be able to use early game to far-off civs, and selling off all extra luxuries that you can.

When you finally get your legions and ballistas, then go out and conquer the jerk that DoWed you 20 turns earlier. Build 3-4 cheap warriors just before and upgrade them once your iron comes online--it's dirt cheap.

 

[Strategist83]

It would be better if you uploaded a few savegames so the people here can take a look at what you are doing right and wrong.

Also, for the one billionth time (this seems a common issue!), don't rely on a default build order (such as your 'build five warriors') to get the work done. You need to work with the map. Even if you're playing Rome, the answer may not always be to go conquering opponents right off the bat.

 

[Bamboocha]

With Rome I'd go with the Liberty tree: free worker, free settler, golden age, + production, + happy, then choose a Great engineer to build the best available wonder. The OP's instincts are right: Rome is expansive and Tradition is for small empires.

If you decide to build the NC for a tech boost, then take the golden age before the free settler, so that your build time for the NC is shortened. Buy, don't build your monument with your first gold to keep the crucial early SPs rolling in on time, and if you get some wheat build a granery after the worker so that you have the extra food to run on production in Rome.

Hard-build your first worker right after your scout; the second one comes free. If you go for NC, both can fill out all the tiles around the capital so that you can send them off later with your settlers: your 2nd & 3rd cities will have production from the start.

Beeline iron for your legions, but also make sure to get archery pretty early along the way to defend yourself from an early rush. Archers are dirt cheap--200 gold--and with 2 or 3 you can fight off any early warrior rush. Don't bother hard-building them; it's better to rushbuy them by selling horses you won't be able to use early game to far-off civs, and selling off all extra luxuries that you can.

When you finally get your legions and ballistas, then go out and conquer the jerk that DoWed you 20 turns earlier. Build 3-4 cheap warriors just before and upgrade them once your iron comes online--it's dirt cheap.

Sounds like a plan. How many legionaires/ballista/archers do I need to invade the enemy? I tend to play conservatively because I'm afraid of not having enough men, thus sending good men to their deaths for no reason.

Also, is liberty truly the SP to focus on? I tend to think honor is the best for expansionist play, but I could be wrong.

It would be better if you uploaded a few savegames so the people here can take a look at what you are doing right and wrong.

Also, for the one billionth time (this seems a common issue!), don't rely on a default build order (such as your 'build five warriors') to get the work done. You need to work with the map. Even if you're playing Rome, the answer may not always be to go conquering opponents right off the bat.

Oops, that's a good point, but I like to have a little guidline just in case. Also, how do you upload a saved game to this forum?

 

[basta]

Sounds like a plan. How many legionaires/ballista/archers do I need to invade the enemy? I tend to play conservatively because I'm afraid of not having enough men, thus sending good men to their deaths for no reason.

Also, is liberty truly the SP to focus on? I tend to think honor is the best for expansionist play, but I could be wrong.?

The great thing about legions is, you can literally build a road to your first conquered city, making the assult a cakewalk. Aim for the weakest city your neighbor has plopped down near you. Assuming he rushed you about 20 turns ago and your cease-fire is recently over, then he doesn't have a huge army, so you should easily be able to take the first city with 4 legions, your archers, and a ballista. You can crank out reinforcements in Rome as you advance. Pull back and let them heal if possible; no point in wasting units vs time.

Rome's UUs--legion and ballista--are so strong early game that you don't need the honor tree. Just don't be reckless with them or abuse insta-heal and with promotions they will be steamrollers.

 

[Civsassin]

Also, for the one billionth time (this seems a common issue!), don't rely on a default build order (such as your 'build five warriors') to get the work done. You need to work with the map. Even if you're playing Rome, the answer may not always be to go conquering opponents right off the bat.

I couldn't have said it better myself. There are no absolutes in Civ games.

 

[Aristos]

I couldn't have said it better myself. There are no absolutes in Civ games.

This.

Wise words.

 

[insaneweasel]

Hey there guys, After the scout I make a monument and after that settlers so I can found a new city.

Some tips:
-Build worker before monument so you can hook up resources.
-Sell early luxury resources to aggressive neighbors for lump sum of gold. When they DoW you, you get the resource back and can sell it in less than 30 turns (and rushbuy an archer or warrior).
-Don't bother with walls on difficulty levels. The 75 hammers is better spent on units.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Archer + hill city = warrior pillbox. You shouldn't be dying to warriors with that.

Yes, this slows down your expansion, but that's part of the higher difficulty. Slower expansion >> negative expansion.