I managed to break a 400 PPT barrier on space projects

[Bibor]

I don't know if it's good or bad, but it's a personal record, with Trajan. Small map, suzerain of 5 city states, turn 235.

Here's the breakdown of yields in Rome, wtih max Magnus slotted:
+89 from outgoing trade routes
+26 from districts (+18 from Industrial zone, +8 from Heartbeat of Steam Campus)
+56 from Buildings
*20 Coal plant
*4 Military Academy
*22 Factory
*3 Armory
*3 Workshop
*1 Water Mill
*1 Barracks
*2 Palace
+120 from worked tiles
+10% amenities
+10% Amundsen-Scott + 20% from somewhere?

Observations:
- Integrated Space Cell policy card seems to have no effect on Lagrange/Laser stations?
- I don't understand, amundsen-scott is supposed to be a 20% modifier to production, but it only yields 10%. Is it broken? I do have 6 snow tiles in that city.
- I’m still confused about Pingala vs Magnus for main space race city. Slotting Magnus for chopping the spaceport and then 5 turns for Pingala seems to be a waste, and again Pingala's ability seems to have no effect on Lagrange/Laser station production.

Now off to finding a strategy writeup for actually fast space victories, like the one from @ATEX

 

[DanQuayle]

+ 20% from somewhere?
Ruhr Valley?
- Integrated Space Cell policy card seems to have no effect on Lagrange/Laser stations?
It doesn't appear as a modifier, but it works
- I don't understand, amundsen-scott is supposed to be a 20% modifier to production, but it only yields 10%. Is it broken? I do have 6 snow tiles in that city.
Maybe you're mixing up tundra and snow tiles? I haven't used that wonder in a while, so I can't comment
- Pingala's ability seems to have no effect on Lagrange/Laser station production
It does, same as first answer

Here's an interesting trivia:
You can build the Exoplanet mission in 5 turns in a city with 3 hammers per turn with royal society and one 7-charge builder per turn...

 

[Bibor]

You're right, the 20% is Ruhr Valley.
You're also probably right that Amundsen-Scott & Integrated Space cells appear as a hidden modifier.

Here's an interesting trivia:

Oh wow, I never knew how powerful Royal society is. But... If I read the wiki right, it's 2% per worker charge, right? So that would be 14% per worker, or 8 workers needed. Or do these also benefit from modifiers like Pingala?

 

[DanQuayle]

Or do these also benefit from modifiers like Pingala?

Yes

 

[Bibor]

Yes

damn. There go my mega production cities

 

[Casualty of war]

Awesomesauce, and I'm envious. I very rarely have time to get Amundsen-Scott down; by the time I CAN build it, I'm already headed to space.

Allow me to suggest the Robert Goddard-Mausoleum combo added on there; it's pretty easy to get if you're willing to dig through the Great Engineers.

 

[The Highwayman]

Amundsen Scott only gives 20% science and 10% production except for the individual cities that have 5 snow tiles within their borders - then it's 40% and 20%. Based on the tool tip, I originally thought if the Amundsen Scott city had 5 snow tiles, the entire empire got the bonus yields but that has never been the case for me in actual practice.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I think you're still confusing something with regard to spaceport cities.

Your highest production city is supposed to have Pingala, and really it should always have Pingala because in that city you will build all of the 4 project before getting to laser stations. Your "chop city" will have Reyna/Moksha and only slot in Magnus 5 turns before you get to the laser stations. You want to have 10-15 builders on 10-15 wood/jungle/stone/deer tiles to chop them all out in one turn and replace them with energy improvements next turn. you don't really need Magnus in the capital ever, the % production from Pingala likely eclipses Magnus anyway, even if you have a few tiles to chop.

400 hammers per turn is impressive, I've never gone that far. around 280 or something was my highest, and even that was only a few turns before I won the game.

 

[Victoria]

the % production from Pingala likely eclipses Magnus anyway

only as much as a seaport, Hong Kong or Goddard... put em all together....
Anyone tried a 2 charge Goddard?.. may be worth the projects just to get him, he’s reachable.
Production begets production.., and in the case of space, it’s like building a battery.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

only as much as a seaport, Hong Kong or Goddard... put em all together....
Anyone tried a 2 charge Goddard?.. may be worth the projects just to get him, he’s reachable.
Production begets production.., and in the case of space, it’s like building a battery.

I almost always try to get the 2 charge Wonder Engineers. Mausoleum is pretty much standard for me. I feel like without them you often struggle to get Amundsen done. Snow cities rarely have more than 10 chops for me. Also, lately my victories have been fast/production in the cap has been low, I barely have time to build Oxford, BB and Ruhr. So one of those is getting boosted, most often it's Ruhr inbetween my Space Projects. Not sure if it's even worth building Ruhr compared to just building Workers and sacrificing them to the space gods.

Goddard I practically never get. Also, I never get to the useful Great Scientists in time either. I always end up getting GS that boost Indu/Modern era while I already have all those techs completed. No idea why my Great People Points are always this bad, but it's kinda infuriating. I don't even know if it's worth it to go for those GS/GE when you're planning to win sub200. Even moreso if it's sub190.

One thing to make them more viable would be to work on projects earlier (which often means foregoing research labs).

I never know when to stop building buildings vs projects Any input?

 

[Victoria]

I feel like without Goddard you often struggle to get Amundsen done

? Is amundsen a space race project? I wonder
... anyway.. ..confirmed... Double action = double dose.

In the attached hacked game there is Pin, Hong Kong, Seaport and double goddard, missing a 7 slotted builder card but not needed for a double Goddard test.
.. and that +40% is available at all spaceports, who need Pingala... or even Magnus!
Why in gods name would you use a 150+ prod city for anything else but getting him.
150 is what 27.5 per turn.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

? Is amundsen a space race project? I wonder

I thought Goddard was the wonder engineer, I checked on the wiki later. Just a feat of him not ever appearing in my games, sadly.

so, it is confirmed that Goddard boosts both Chops and Builder Sacrifice for Space Projects? And the same goes for the GS then I assume? That's insane.

150 is what 27.5 per turn.

Are you referring to the rate of hammers that result in Great Engineer points when working the IZ project? I have never quite understood this, is there a ressource for that?

 

[The Highwayman]

Goddard is a modern era GE. Perhaps I need to push the IZ projects harder since I only ever get through Industrial Era. It's still a roll of the dice whether he's first, second, or third in the pool and the other two GEs in that era will have little to zero impact on a fast science win.

Some of the GS timing is awful. The one that boosts printing, computers, Chemistry - I've already got the techs most of the time.

In my last science game, I used 2 of Eiffel's charges to finish Ruhr and his 3rd to finish Amundsen and the timing there was fine. But still, that late with Magnus, it only seems to take 7-8 chops with Skyscrapers to finish Amundsen. Is your experience different, @yung.carl.jung ?

 

[Bibor]

The more i try to optimize my space w/o faith the more it seems that “7 charge” sacrifices to the space gods seem to be the fastest option, as it requires only science, rather than both culture and intl trade routes (I usualy play on continents).


Goddard question: it stacks in the *same* city with Mausoleum?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Goddard is a modern era GE. Perhaps I need to push the IZ projects harder since I only ever get through Industrial Era. It's still a roll of the dice whether he's first, second, or third in the pool and the other two GEs in that era will have little to zero impact on a fast science win.

Some of the GS timing is awful. The one that boosts printing, computers, Chemistry - I've already got the techs most of the time.

In my last science game, I used 2 of Eiffel's charges to finish Ruhr and his 3rd to finish Amundsen and the timing there was fine. But still, that late with Magnus, it only seems to take 7-8 chops with Skyscrapers to finish Amundsen. Is your experience different, @yung.carl.jung ?

8 chops seems totally realistic, I would say it's 7-8 in almost all my games if you assume woods/deer/stone. But I include jungles under chops, that's why I said 10 instead, since jungles are only half as much production and I assume a mix of chops for every city.

I do the same as you, I think using the last charge of your Eiffel for Amundsen is the ideal way to do it. BB and Oxford I usually hardbuild.

 

[Casualty of war]

Goddard gives you the Rocketry Eureka way, way, WAY too late but also gives you +20% Production towards Space Race projects. And if you got Mausoleum, you can use him twice for +40%.

But I may be inefficiently allocating my Hammers to IZs to dig to him. My major Spaceport city is usually Magnus being fed by a perimeter of IZs, but that might be too much squandered overlap of their coverage.

 

[Victoria]

is there a ressource for that?

it stacks in the *same* city with Mausoleum?

Goddard gives you the Rocketry Eureka way, way, WAY too late

Goddard stacks anywhere @Bibor use my save to try.

For others, I have not checked the effort in production it would take if he was the first modern engineer but the original GP formula was wonderfully simplified by a clever person called @ggmoyang who condensed a project to
(Production/5)+5 = GP points for the entire project. Each turn apart from the last you get 1/5 of your production in GP points (half that for theatres because there is 3) on the last turn of a project you get 5 extra GP points... meaning early projects are a leetle stronger like holy sites and campus. But a 150 production city would give over 30 GE points per turn. The length of the project is fairly immaterial but is based on how far through the tech tree decides how much production is required for the project.
Chop 10 200 prod Magnus trees into projects with Hong Kong... that 480 GP... you are probably better off using shrines and theocracy.

the 27.5 is not entirely accurate above but close enough as you factor in your building GP’s per turn also.

EDIT:
Medieval Engineers are 120*3=360
Renaissance are 240*3=720
Industrial are 420*3=1260
... then Modern@660 each. I just tried in 2 different games and got Goddard first both times... but who knows if that is a fix or a firetuner thing.

1920 GE points over say 100 turns = 192 per turn or multiply by 5 for production value
Only 24K faith... you might be able to loot that if not Harald.

 

[Bibor]

I'm about to finish a peaceful space race with Korea without using faith, victory will be probably around T240 - the land was okay but not great. My best attempt yet.

Even with Pyramids, the chokepoints, seem to be worker charges and shortage of policy cards before Merchant Republic. Culture is still important to reach democracy (I thought I could get away without it, but alas, Royal Society...). I'm not sure anymore that industrial zones are even worth it, except perhaps 2-3. The Great engineers are simply not worth the effort, as my production cities have so much to do, for example at least one Armory for military engineers so workers can actually reach the spaceports quickly enough via railroad. Even with Oracle + campuses upgraded as fast as humanely possible, my tech pace simply outpaces the scientists I get, the last useful one before victory would be Newton.

The other choke point was farms and/or housing for cities to reach pop 10. This was probably my biggest delay in turns, at least half of my cities didn't reach pop 10 before reaching robotics. I think 8 cities might be ideal, because I was strugging with my 12... (on a small map)

 

[Victoria]

I'm not sure anymore that industrial zones are even worth it,

They are not unless Germany because there they are cheap and do not take a district slot.
10 pop cities are not easy everywhere and you do need to keep this in mind when placing cities. Having a triangle and swapping this between needy cities Is one thing but getting granaries earlier is surprisingly useful as is having the classic republic legacy charge but chopping food based tiles at the right time is great.
The cities does depend on getting your adjacencies, CS and Kilwa but I find 8 a struggle and 10-12 works.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I always thought IZ were worth. Since I usually rush Industrialization I always get 3 in order to shave ~2-3 turns off of my Industrialization. Getting those mines improved ASAP really helps. In my games it's usually 4 IZ, 2 early, 1 mid, 1 later, so that I can get the Eurekah for 2 Coal Plants and 2 Oil plants both. Also, as posted above, I like Eiffel a lot and you don't get him without IZs. Both Wonder GE are incredibly useful, even moreso 'cuz I get Mausoleum usually.