I need some help getting my war legs.

[Krath]

The problem can kinda be broken down into two parts.

In single player, I like to play peacefully. I generally can stay out of trouble with the other nations and peacefully expand my empire until around 1000 AD or so, where someone will declare war on me for almost no reason (Napoleon and I were Friendly, and he declared war on me for 'insulting the French Empire').

Thing is, I'm terrible at war. Once they declare war on me, they storm my borders with huge stacks of units. Napoleon once sent a stack of 3 Knights, 4 Macemen, and 2 Catapults to attack my border city, but not before razing everything around it. I have a bad habit of just leaving my military units sitting on my cities to guard it, leaving my improvements to be ransacked. Real bad habit, but I can't help it, I'm paranoid that a lack of city defense will ruin me.

Don't even get me started on multiplayer. I always tend to have someone start war on me early, and I get rushed. I always play too passively, even when I don't mean to.
I have the mindset where if I declare war on someone, it'll start a chain reaction that'll either lead to my enemy calling in friends, or I'll get trounced. I also tend to hold off on Archery until I get some basic techs, like Agriculture, Hunting, The Wheel, etc which often leaves me vulnerable to rushes by Archers and Axemen.

TL;DR: I always tend to play too passively and I need tips on how to improve my war game.

 

[Shafi]

i will only comment on SP, i think you really need to get a lot better at warfare to handle MP cos the AI actually sucks at war.

Here are some things i would suggest,

1) Have one city (a good production city) continously pump out military units.
2) Check the power ratings regularly and try to get yourself towards the top.
3) build a mix of units - Archers + some axes for city defense + Mounted units for protecting enemy units from pillaging.
4) Early rushes can really make things easy, you should try it, you inadvertently end up being militarily strong in the process.
5) Work on your diplo, you cant be buddies with everyone, you need to pick a couple of guys you are gonna be friends.

you dont need to get archery early. I usually dont tech archery, i will either hook up horses from AH or axes from BW so i dont really build archers unless i happen to be Sitting bull or Mansa Musa etc.

I used to have the same problem when i used to play on chieftain, it is basically to do with not having enough military, then i learned to rush my opponents .... that changed things completely

BTW - 3 knights + 4 maces + 2 cats is not a huge stack, it's actually pretty lousy

 

[Virtual Alex]

I agree with previous posters. Have your production city largely ignore building anything but military. Even if you don't need an army because you aren't planning a war, you still need the army to defend your cities, look big and strong and it's nice to have a standing army just in case you do go to war.

 

[v8_mark]

BTW - 3 knights + 4 maces + 2 cats is not a huge stack, it's actually pretty lousy

Yeah - I'm not sure that even qualifies as a stack, to be honest. If you can't deal with that comfortably then the chances are you're not building anything like enough military units. All you need to deal with that is a couple of catapults and 10-12 knights or maces of your own. Throw the catapults in - they'll die, but then you'll be at 90% for the rest of the battles.

Another thing to realize is that combat in CivIV is all about stacks. You need to have a stack bigger than the one that's coming in to defend yourself. Normally this is easy, because even in an emergency, you have 3-4 turns to chop/whip/summon units from anywhere to combat his stack. But what you must have is a standing army. And I mean a standing offensive army - a stack of 4 longbows does nothing except stand around and wait to be slaughtered. Next game, make sure you have some units of your own to counter with.

If you can't afford the production for a few units without falling behind, you're doing something else badly wrong at Noble.

This is all single-player advice, btw - I don't have any experience in MP.

 

[Idleray]

Here's how you can be great at war:

Build 4 catapults, 8 if your opponents cities have 100% defense (walls/castles)

8 city raider promoted infantry appropriate for your era (swordsmen/macemen generally)

2-3 anti-cavalry (spear/pikemen) to defend the stack.

1-2 general combat (i.e. cover, shock promoted) infantry

Voila, you are now ready to take enemy cities.

Remember city raider promotions are very important, mainly for the reason that you can upgrade these units to gunpowder units later on which cannot receive the city raider promotion normally. Gunpowder units with city raider are your ticket to victory, especially if you get Chemistry early and upgrade all your CR macemen into grenadiers.

For the stack you mentioned (3 knights, 4 macemen, 2 pults), this is how to offensively counter it: 3 musketmen with the formation promotion then use either crossbows or macemen with the shock promotion... or just more musketmen to kill the remaining maces.

 

[pnp_dredd]

Offense is the best defense. Build more offensive units, and catapults.

Also, you should try a few aggressive games. For these ones, build your cities in high-production locations (hills are Good Tiles). Tech to IW and Construction and build up >10 Swords and >5 Catapults and go to war. Continue building units to replace any that you use. Use catapults to take down city defenses an suicide if the defence looks tough.

The first time you do this, use Julius Caesar. That's a fun game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

A real stack can be 50-100 units or more, although against inferior opposition you will generally split it up to save time.

To protect yourself, manage diplo (look up one of the reference sheets on the XML to know how they act), and for leaders that can declare on you, scout them out and find their stack (if they have one) using a stray unit. Build enough forces to kill such a stack. Siege + mounted is usually very strong for active defense. MASSED longbows or achers can hold too especially for AIs that tend to build minimal siege. I prefer active D since the AI won't pillage with its mounted en route to your city if you kill it the second it touches flatland.

Specialize a military production city and use it to keep enough forces to stay alive. Make more of them and you can invade others.

 

[harry_flashman]

WAR!
if it looks like you may be in a little trouble, switch to as many of these civics as you can: Theology, Vassalage, Nationhood. Either whip or chop units.

Be a decent defensive civ like Sitting Bull or Charlemagne.

Build a city on a hill, build walls, tech archery or feudalism, build the Great Wall. Watch the AI suicide himself against your hill city, while you get some free great generals.

The other option to a passive defence as above is to arm your horsemen/knights with flanking 1 and preferably 2. They will then be able to attack, hopefully withdraw, and cause damage to the primary defender and any siege. Also attack using catapults with barrage promos. Mop up the rest of their stack using units promoted to drill. If they have lots of siege or you are worried about pillaging use this type of defence.

Promos are important. Thats why I like to have an early war. It gets you great generals you otherwise cant get. If you are planning on being defensive settle them in one city to get some promotions. promoted units also unlock the HE and west point.

Send a spy to pillage their iron.

Its best not to decide before starting a game and seeing the map/who your neighbours are, whether you will play peacefully or not. If you've got lots of room and either a pussycat neighbour, or favourable diplomatic situation, by all means build an army of 10 effeminate blokes armed with big sticks and run pacifism. If you're next to a mentalist start building units.

 

[Gumbolt]

Post a game!!! Its not hard to build 8 units really. 5 cities. Whip 5 axes. With nationhood you get 3 units a turn pending on game settings. A stack of 8 is not huge. Latest game I was face by a stack of 20 followed by a stack of 10-12.

 

[Idleray]

A real stack can be 50-100 units or more, although against inferior opposition you will generally split it up to save time.

Excuse me if I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Up to 50, sure, but any higher and I start to wonder about the efficiency and logistical considerations or lack thereof of having such a big stack. You usually need only about 20 unit stacks for city conquering in the late game which is why I tend to have 2-3 stacks attacking and taking cities on multiplie fronts.

Having such huge stacks also exposes you to the danger of having it completely wiped out or crippled by tact nukes... though of course competent interception (SAM, jets) measures should suffice.

Of course its a different consideration for a sea based coastal city invasion stack. What with all the transports and carriers and the units they carry as well as the mobility of sea units then sure, up to 100 units. I see where youre coming from.


Also I would like to make a point of disagreeing with the guys who insist that you have to designate a production city that will churn out units non-stop. I think this is impractical and inefficient. During times of growth, all your cities should naturally focus on buildings, and you should be running appropriate civics (organised religion, suffrage etc).

During times of war however, you should have all your cities on military production, using the right war civics(vassalage,theocracy are the core ones) so all your units come out with the maximum amount of exp points. Producing inexperienced military during peacetime is not optimal, IMHO.

 

[Idleray]

A point on Nationhood: this is a delicate civic which requires planning and knowledge of game mechanics to use. Someone did an analysis which I suggest you dig up if you want to use it effectively. The gist of it is that drafting Riflemen(and its variants) is the most value-for-food use you can make of it as each Rifle costs 1 pop to draft.

IIRC, infantry cost 2 pop and mech infantry cost 3 pop, which are much bigger blows to your cities.

It is widely suggested that you draft every turn in the city that you have Globe Theatre for negating the unhappy penalty.

Finally, IMO having the spiritual trait or Cristo rendetor can really help you leverage drafting: simply draft whenever you have an oversupply of both happiness and pop in your cities then switch back to previous civics when you've had enough. This way you can build up a sizable army at minimal cost during peacetime.

My personal preference however is still for Vassalage, as I mainly fight wars in the late game when drafting is IMO not as cost-effective as just letting my pop produce hammers. The maintenance bonus is also not to be ignored and offsets its civic cost vis-a-vis Nationhood's lack thereof.

 

[Idleray]

One final note- key to success in any protracted war where you do not have an overwhelming tech advantage: bring medics. The VERY FIRST great general you create should be assigned to either a chariot/horse archer or a spear/pikeman. A GG provides 20 exp split evenly amongst all the units in the stack where you turn it into a warlord. Make sure this exp split gives your warlord unit sufficient exp to promote to Medic III.

In BTS your next best bet is Woodsman III, which provides the same benefit as Medic III just without the adjacent square effect.

ALWAYS try to have your units be in the healing range of a Medic III warlord unit when you heal them, this contributes GREATLY to maximizing the value you get out of your units, and minimizing downtime during which war weariness and enemy preparation increases.

 

[Silu]

My personal preference however is still for Vassalage, as I mainly fight wars in the late game when drafting is IMO not as cost-effective as just letting my pop produce hammers. The maintenance bonus is also not to be ignored and offsets its civic cost vis-a-vis Nationhood's lack thereof.

*blinks*

First time I've seen a lategame "top 2" Legal civic comparison between Nationhood and Vassalage.

For the first general, only use it on a Medic if you plan extensive warring pretty soon and often. If not, it's better settled to be able to produce level 3 units before&without Theo/Vassalage.

As for nukes against huge stacks, in all my games I've never seen an AI use nukes. For some reason they don't tend to favor Manhattan Project very high, even when having monopoly on Fission for centuries. And stacks of that size are really needed often in the late game for a decisive victory. Difficulty level and game speed factor into this; a Deity Marathon AI stack can be ridiculous due to nonexistent mainteinance and lower hammer cost.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Excuse me if I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Up to 50, sure, but any higher and I start to wonder about the efficiency and logistical considerations or lack thereof of having such a big stack. You usually need only about 20 unit stacks for city conquering in the late game which is why I tend to have 2-3 stacks attacking and taking cities on multiplie fronts.

Since you're calling me out, show me the "exaggeration":

That's from one of the immortal university games, doesn't take much imagination to see that such would win it, and the #'s hardly seem off...

Having such huge stacks also exposes you to the danger of having it completely wiped out or crippled by tact nukes... though of course competent interception (SAM, jets) measures should suffice.

Complete nonsense. First of all, you can only intercept nukes with SDI, nothing else. Second, the whole point of such an army is to prevent their access to such things as nuking you .

Of course its a different consideration for a sea based coastal city invasion stack. What with all the transports and carriers and the units they carry as well as the mobility of sea units then sure, up to 100 units. I see where youre coming from.

Yes, fielding a navy can make it even bigger.

Also I would like to make a point of disagreeing with the guys who insist that you have to designate a production city that will churn out units non-stop. I think this is impractical and inefficient. During times of growth, all your cities should naturally focus on buildings, and you should be running appropriate civics (organised religion, suffrage etc).

Access to multipliers, especially heroic epic, call this point into question. Building wealth is always an option. Building commerce multipliers in low commerce cities is a ridiculously poor investment. Units frequently are not a poor investment.

Now, all of this is for STANDARD SIZE maps and speeds. If you increase the map size, sometimes the unit counts can get a little silly:

20 units might work out OK at low difficulties, but at high ones its situational. You do NOT want to split your stack that way against immortal+ shaka when he has 100 units too (and yes, it happens), you'll get mauled. Against very large stacks collateral initiative is murder, but you still need to have enough troops to put a dent in them.

 

[rabidveggie]

The best defense is a good offense.When two large stacks face off with comparable numbers the one that strikes first with collateral wins. Things like catapults are important, before they were patched my armies consisted of nothing but catapults. If you are outnumbered to significantly sit in your city and massproduce units. An army of just two cats are in for a very lengthy seige.

Do not leave your city just to save a few improvements. If a city cannot be held and your defense units can't inflict a reasonable amount of casualties withdraw. You'll lose the city but with the couple extra units you've saved can be what turns the tide.
Make sure your tech path reaches each military milestone as quickly as possible. If you lack bronze and horses it is imperative you go for iron immediately even if you don't plan to fight anyone.

In multiplayer especially look to the civ your opponent picked. If your neighbour is say, Rome have lots of axemen because they are going to almost certainly attack, if they're sitting bull get some archers or better yet, chariots. Keep your capital guarded at the start and watch the border for strange movements, ex. a worker building a long road to your border, or a sudden spike in the power graph. A few extra turns to prepare can do wonders.

Make sure you take terrain into account, as the defender you get to pick where the fights happen. When you attack try to keep your advance moving from hills or woods.