I think the game should get back to some realistic history

I‘m sure some people count Ibn Battuta as black. He is African, and ethnically Berber (despite being Arabic cultured).
I don't think so, he doesn't come across as Black at all. I mean just because he's African?
I think we could definitely do a lot better in terms of Black rep.
I'm not black myself but I feel the game is definitely lacking without a Mansa Musa, or a Shaka, or Haile Selassie, or something close. I'm sure there's even more non-leaders of which I'm not aware about.
 
Real leaders again would be so nice.
Shame that Firaxis went for Ada Lovelace and other made up leaders just to add more females in the roster.
But I think consumers can vote with their wallets, like I did, and correct history and erase the lies.
With the exception of Tubman and Ada all the other female leaders were major political/military figures for their civs? I also doubt they expanded the leader selection solely for diversity when there is still plenty of ‘real’ female leaders to choose from
 
What room is there for simulating historical and political cycles when leaders have always been immortal beings that ruled over a civ from like three thousand BC. Civ just isn't and has never been the accurate historical simulation franchise you seem to want it to be.
I have already explained this concept for an industrial revolution you need 1 Technology, blast furnaces, mechanical looms 2 raw materials, then certain events will happen or there could be, colonialism, modern, urban proletariat, Marxism, revolutions and revolts an event has causes. For leaders I have always supported the abolition and focus on ideologies. Moderator Action: *snip* no political talk, please. - Nikolai II
 
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As I explained years ago, we do not need leaders who attribute events but events of the Atlantic triangle: slaves, molasses, gold, economic events that trigger events, which lead to other events.View attachment 727629
Without the explorations of the 1400s and 1500s and. Imports and exports one cannot understand modern trade, the rise of England, modern capitalism with the East India Company, the first multinational, and the rise of Europe and the decline of the Mediterranean is more useful and interesting than the ethnicity and sex of the leaders.
 
it is not a matter of simulating specific historical events but historical processes that may or may not happen based on technology, events ,wars choices
 
Without the explorations of the 1400s and 1500s and. Imports and exports one cannot understand modern trade, the rise of England, modern capitalism with the East India Company, the first multinational, and the rise of Europe and the decline of the Mediterranean is more useful and interesting than the ethnicity and sex of the leaders.
The twentieth century is all about ideology - communism, fascism, democracy, capitalism. Read a history book and the game must develop on the ideology, not on the attributes of the leaders and on the leaders themselves, who can be different depending on the events or have different roles depending on the events.
 
The game places a greater emphasis on the economy, political systems, and the simulation of diplomatic relations between states, making it possible to create dynastic, political, ideological, and religious alliances that change over time.
 
I realized today playing civilization IV the wars last too long in the rrealta the states would collapse first the 100 year war and a also the 30 year war was in phases this in a new civilization should be changed
 
Leaders are not reliable 1 because , they can either die or be overthrown are tied to a historical era , the only possibility and develop ideology , and economics and politics ,
 
Firstly, I don't have the game yet and I don't have it because there's just not enough interesting leaders or civilizations for me to want to pay to play. But I've been keeping up with the reviews and videos about what's happening with the game because probably I will get it one day. Most of the negative feedback is on UI and most people who have a favorable opinion of the game want to think that that is the only issue. I don't believe that is the case. I think there's 2 sides. The negative side is that they might have UI as a main or one of the biggest problems amongst many other problems. The positive side that they admit that UI is an issue and thinks that once that's fixed it's all good. I think the positive side (which includes the developers) is ignoring many of us who thinks there are other issues.

I think the game has strayed too far from history. I really think it needs to get back to genuine leaders in history (not great people types), and actually have a sense that you're leading a genuine political/military leader through history. I don't mind leaders being able to lead any civ. But if there are rules around how a civ or leaders can unlock certain civs, why not make it a rule that Augustus can only lead Rome or Greece in antiquity and not Khmer. After all, Catherine the Great doesn't unlock Siam in modern age, so why does Augustus unlock Khmer in antiquity. Second, I'm also fine with changing civs but why not make it more natural progressions or gameplay progressions that make sense. Things like wine resources for France is silly. France is not the only civ that drank wine in history. It feels forced. Spain to Mexico, okay. How about use opportunities like religion to able to progress to another civ. For example, if Buddhism is spread in your civ, something like Siam becomes unlocked. It should be genuine historical reasons that unlock civs rather than forced ones.

Finally, civ changes should happen because something in history makes it happen, not because you get to a certain turn number. Especially the fact that at that turn all wars and wonder building stops. That's silly and heavy handed. Why not let the history and turns continue (not stop at a pre-determined point), you can still have crises, if you want to change civs. Changing civs should be something you'd want to do. It should be a major upgrade. For example, I agree that America should be a modern age civ. But becoming America should have something to do with government and policy changes that give that civ a major boost and something you'd want to do despite going through a major crises. Something like, yes we can go through this bad phase because we'll come out better. That is what the American Revolution was about. Also, civs shouldn't have to change, if you want to be China throughout the game, you can but you might not get the benefits of upgrading to a more modern civilization. That is the path you should be allowed to take. Take history, the nation of Germany formed from many states, but the unification of Germany didn't have to happen nor does it need to happen at a certain date. Why can't the Roman civ just have dynastic style changes like China with Han > Ming > Qing. Isn't that was civ is about. The what-if? The problem right now is, it's not what-if, it's what-will-be. You're allowed to choose in a box at a certain time rather than developing a real history that makes sense. I played past civs like a roleplay. I was never great player but I enjoyed building a somewhat historical empire where I could write my own history and tell a story. I don't think I was the only one and it's neglected a lot of players like me who liked that ability to create that free history with historical characters and civs.

I don't know, maybe someone who gets paid for thinking up this stuff should expand on this. I know this stuff probably won't happen in Civ VII as the game mechanics are set but Civ VIII?
I don't even need to read last the title to agree with you 100% that's what I liked. Need an earth map whoa just your last sentence... Well if that's the case totally burnt out on this game. It's just not fun at all for me. Humankind on console is better and that's broken AF on console lol
 
As to the idea of "realistic" history being history that only has "real leaders" in it, that's a very narrow view of history as only a matter of politics and warfare. The idea that only "real leaders" in political roles guided the fate of civilizations and history hasn't been considered "real history" by anyone who actually study history in a long time - it's a field of rank amateurs and Hollywood filmmakers, and an intellectual straitjacket to any serious consideration of history.

What you're asking for is not "realistic history", but the modern mythology - the aggrandized events centering on a handful of greater-than-life heroes and villains that supposedly give a simple explanation of how the world is as it is now and give us examples to follow - of popular culture.

Which, fair, mythology still endures in this new form because it's a very human thing to desire, and those symbols speak to us for a reason but let's not call realistic history somethign that is neither.
Your right, so let's have the modern mythology because we are trying to play out the scenarios we were taught (shoved down our throats, with all dissent silenced rather) and tweak them little and see what alternative versions of the mythology look like.
 
As to the idea of "realistic" history being history that only has "real leaders" in it, that's a very narrow view of history as only a matter of politics and warfare. The idea that only "real leaders" in political roles guided the fate of civilizations and history hasn't been considered "real history" by anyone who actually study history in a long time - it's a field of rank amateurs and Hollywood filmmakers, and an intellectual straitjacket to any serious consideration of history.

What you're asking for is not "realistic history", but the modern mythology - the aggrandized events centering on a handful of greater-than-life heroes and villains that supposedly give a simple explanation of how the world is as it is now and give us examples to follow - of popular culture.

Which, fair, mythology still endures in this new form because it's a very human thing to desire, and those symbols speak to us for a reason but let's not call realistic history somethign that is neither.
Indeed. As an example, the leader who brought down the Warsaw Pact was a shipyard worker.
 
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Only by simulating political and economic schemes can the simulation problem be solved, communism, Stalinist, or Trotskyist? Economy. Totally planned or a minimum of free trade? Fascism, Italian or Germanic, what types of democracy, French, English, oligarchic, popular? Put luis riel or ada lovelace and just please. An ethnic minority of a country for names that we study history these people are as useful as a stone on Mars, they are historically irrelevant
The problem is, you constantly demand a completely different the any Civ iteration has EVER been, and screams such a tightly scripted (and boring and useless for play) game is a NECESSITY that EVERYONE must agree with, and disagreement is objectively wrong. This is why you're often left to scream, unresponded to in a digital void stream a lot of the time.
 
Your right, so let's have the modern mythology because we are trying to play out the scenarios we were taught (shoved down our throats, with all dissent silenced rather) and tweak them little and see what alternative versions of the mythology look like.
I'm not onboard with your desire to stick to scenarios you were taught constraining my ability to go beyond high school nonsense for the seventh game in a row, so, no.
 
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