Idea for dungeons and lairs

[Furin]

As far as I can understand from the rules I read for multiplayer it lacks grace to pop an early adept from a lair and found a religion with it, instead of founding the religion within the usual time, or with prophet popping, lets say 50 turns or so (or better or worse depending on how skilled the players are but definitly not within 20 turns)

I was thinking that a change in the lairs and dungeons mechanics could do the trick.

Right now, dungeons are like "super" goodie huts, you will either spawn hostiles (often), have some effects on your dungeon crawling unit or get a bonus.

What if the dungeons would have more "levels"?

1st level: You will always meet one or two weak monsters, like a goblin or a skeleton and with a small chance a boss encounter so noone can farm the dungeon for early xp without at least some risk
2nd level: You will always meet more of the above plus a slightly higher chance for bosses and an additional very small chance that the unit gets lost in the dungeon (cannot move for 5 turns)
3rd level: from here on it's all like it is now, random boni or mali

Like that noone can get an early disciple (earlier than +/-50 turns) unless he sends all his early warriors to the very close dungeon and is extremely lucky with the fights.

A little bit like now when the message tells you "do you want to go deeper" and "fortune favors the bold". What do you think of the idea?

 

[Danir]

At least for me, the biggest part of the fun in exploring dungeons is that you just don't know what will happen. The chance of a reward even with the risk of finding something that will eat your eyes is something that always keeps the interest up.

If there was a set pattern like you suggest, it would become a lot more boring in my opinion. The word "always" just doesn't work with the randomness of the dungeons. Disciples are quite rare, and it rarely makes or breaks the game even if you find one early, because you still need the tech to get almost anything out from the particular religion. Of course it ensures that you are the founder and gives you a headstart, but that's again part of the charm; it's a reward.

It's not a bad idea, but I think the current system is simply more fun.

 

[Furin]

Also come to think of it, I am not sure if a dungeon can be flagged as already explored x times. Now it works with propabilities I guess.

I really shouldn't post ideas when I am tired and can't sleep

 

[TheGreatSteve]

I kind of like the idea, it is annoying that you can walk up to a lair, explore, and get a free GP or the like. But I'd rather see lairs just made good AND bad.


You freed a GP?(an Big Good result) An Azer and his pals(Big Bad result) rise from the lair to try to take him back.
Your scout was stabbed by a goblin with a poisoned sword?(Minor Bad result) But he took the Poisoned Blade off the corpse(Minor Good result)

Your unit finds treasure but the roof caves in when he takes it. Your unit finds ancient scrolls, in a laboratory that plagues him. Your unit's adventures give him experience but also annoy a few lizardmen.



Makes the Big results less game-changing, takes some of the sting out of the "lizardmen, skeletons, plagued, lizardmen, skeletons" games.

 

[Honor]

^^ I like this.

 

[MasterofDisasta]

But I'd rather see lairs just made good AND bad.

Yes! I completely agree. Makes dungeons less of a dice roll and more of a mini-quest to complete by building an exploration team capable of claiming its rewards.

 

[Brugarin]

What extra stuff do the unique dungeons like Island of Aifons (or whatever) and Bradeline's Well have?

 

[Azhral]

What extra stuff do the unique dungeons like Island of Aifons (or whatever) and Bradeline's Well have?

Just a much bigger chance to get a really good or really bad result, as far as I can tell.

 

[KingOfLands]

What extra stuff do the unique dungeons like Island of Aifons (or whatever) and Bradeline's Well have?

I'm fairly sure that Azhral's right and, additionally, there are some results unique to the "epic" dungeons which just don't occur in regular ones.

 

[Jules.lt]

What about this:

The first exploration of a dungeon can't give a good result -> You always need to overcome some obstacle before you get a reward.
A dungeon doesn't disappear unless you find a result that is marked as an "end of dungeon" one -> usually good results.

That way the risk-reward pattern is more consistent, even though the results are still utterly unpredictable.

(you can always make new improvements describing increasingly deep and terrifying dungeons if you want to keep track of the number of explorations)

 

[Caradoc]

And what about:

Sometimes your recon unit gets a message warning about the upcoming encounter and the option of running away. (For instance detects a trap or hears a monster.)

 

[Ribusprissin]

What about this:

The first exploration of a dungeon can't give a good result -> You always need to overcome some obstacle before you get a reward.
A dungeon doesn't disappear unless you find a result that is marked as an "end of dungeon" one -> usually good results.

That way the risk-reward pattern is more consistent, even though the results are still utterly unpredictable.

(you can always make new improvements describing increasingly deep and terrifying dungeons if you want to keep track of the number of explorations)

yes, +1 vote for this idea
I hate finding nothing but a cave-in after battering through 3 poisonous goblin archers.

 

[solistus]

I like a lot of these suggestions. Dungeons are really cool as is but could certainly use some more complexity to make them a more integral part of the game.

Also, a pre-game option to drastically increase the number of dungeons would be neat.

 

[Nihilus]

But I'd rather see lairs just made good AND bad.

i am also unhappy with the current handling of lairs and was thinking along similar lines, though i think it can be implemented easier. the only truly bad event from a lair is "Lair destroyed". everything else is just obstacles to overcome on your way to the phat loot. so the suggestion is to only destroy lairs on good events (possibly as option for custom game). it seems to be partially this way already, monster spawn events seem to be a lot less likely to destroy the lair than good events, i just would like to have a way to make that absolute.

of course you could still lose by getting wave after wave of boss mobs only to have the lair pop 100 gold or something similar silly after all that hard work ^_^

 

[solistus]

Nihilus: don't forget the debuffs. I always use a throwaway unit for the exploration proper to avoid gimping a hero or highly promoted unit.