Idea for new DLC/expansion based around diplomacy/espionage.

[Ivan Hunger]

I've been kicking around some ideas in my head for some new features they could include in a potential DLC or an expansion that focuses on city-state diplomacy and the espionage system. Thought I should finally get around to posting them.

New Districts

Diplomatic District

• If built on the border of a city-state, will instantly grant you an envoy at that city-state and allow open borders with that city-state.
• If built on the border of another empire, will increase your diplomatic visibility with that empire by 1 level and increase the amount of war weariness that empire receives for fighting against you.
• +1 great diplomat point per turn
• Citizen slots: +1 culture per turn, +1 faith per turn
• Project: Awards influence points and great diplomat points upon completion.
• Building 1: +1 influence point per turn, +1 citizen slot, +1 great diplomat point per turn
• Building 2: +1 influence point per turn, +1 citizen slot, +1 great diplomat point per turn
• Building 3: +1 influence point per turn, +1 citizen slot, +1 great diplomat point per turn

Espionage District

• All covert actions performed by foreign spies in all adjacent districts are more likely to fail, and the foreign spies are more likely to be captured or killed.
• If built on the border of another empire, all covert actions performed by your spies in that empire are more likely to be successful, and your spies are less likely to be captured or killed.
• +1 great operative point per turn
• Citizen slots: +1 production per turn, +1 science per turn
• Project: Earns gold equal to 15% of production used and awards great operative points upon completion.
• Building 1: +1 production per turn, +1 housing, +1 citizen slot, +1 great operative point per turn, +25% experience for all spies trained in this city
• Building 2: +2 production per turn, +1 citizen slot, +1 great operative point per turn, +25% experience for all spies trained in this city
• Building 3: +3 production per turn, +1 housing, +1 citizen slot, +1 great operative point per turn, +25% experience for all spies trained in this city, +1 spy capacity

New Governments

Classical Era Government

• Policy slots: 0 red, 1 yellow, 2 green, 1 purple
• Government bonus: Completing quests for city-states grants 2 envoys instead of 1.
• Legacy bonus: Levying city-state militaries and upgrading levied units costs less gold.

Renaissance Era Government

• Policy slots: 1 red, 1 yellow, 3 green, 1 purple
• Government bonus: Your units have increased combat strength and increased theological combat strength against any units of an empire with whom you have a diplomatic visibility level of "secret" or higher.
• Legacy bonus: Increased production when training spies.

Modern Era Government

• Policy slots: 1 red, 1 yellow, 4 green, 2 purple
• Government bonus: Increased spy capacity.
• Legacy bonus: Spies gain experience faster.

Diplomatic Victory

In order to win diplomatic victory, you must be the suzerain of every city-state in the game, and you must have performed the "obtain blackmail" covert action at least once in the capital city center of every empire in the game.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

I like the idea of Great Diplomats, I'd love to see some Secretaries of State added as Great People.

Personally, I'm not sure about adding another district (I do like the current number of 12 districts excluding the City Center, I think 12 is a nice number), but if we were to I'd probably combine the Espionage and Diplomacy district into one. I don't think those game mechanics are quite ingrained enough to merit two separate districts.

I also don't know about adding new governments, I think the three we have are well balanced against each other (for the most part), though that Classical Era government looks pretty powerful with its bonus envoys. The modern era government with four diplomatic policy slots is a little heavily leaned in that direction though. There aren't even a whole bunch of diplomatic policies to use in the first place.

Diplomatic victory seem like it'd be a little hard to achieve as well.

Overall though, I like the ideas at work here.

 

[Temppu]

Like the ideas in general and Im hoping the first expansion would be diplomacy inclined. I also am, however, uncertain whether the number of districts should necessarily be increased, although there have been similar ideas of additional districts, e.g., in the form of a railroad district, before.

I have two comments on this topic:
1) Could diplomatic/espionage buildings fit the city center? The city center district buildings are currently somewhat lackluster, and foreign diplomats residing in the central city parts is quite realistic.
2) How would these buildings and the Diplomatic Victory be integrated to the likely added World Congress?

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Why more districts?
The devs seem to consider districts to be the defining mechanic of Civ 6. Most of the civs in the vanilla game use districts in some unique way, and all of the DLC civs do as well. Since they've pushed districts so much already, I assumed they would want to continue pushing them in future products as well, which is why I made them a big part of this idea.

Isn't four diplomatic policy slots too restrictive? Seems like it wouldn't offer the player enough choices.
There are 13 diplomatic policies currently in the game, and only 1 of them obsoletes. This means the player will have a fairly good selection of diplomatic policies to choose from in the modern era and beyond, even if they build the Potala Palace. I also would assume that a hypothetical expansion/DLC like this would include new diplomatic policy cards, like one that lets you construct diplomatic and espionage districts faster, for example.

Aren't those conditions for winning diplomatic victory too difficult to achieve?
Probably. I'm not good at game balance, so I decided to err on the side of difficult. But becoming suzerain of every single city-state on a huge map is most likely not realistic, even if your rivals kill a few of them. Still, I think the description does a good job of getting the idea across.

Wouldn't it be more realistic for diplomatic and espionage buildings to go in the city center?
Yes, but this goes back to that first question I answered. The devs seem to be very proud of unstacked cities, districts, adjacency benefits, etc. I think they would prefer to continue pushing those gameplay mechanics, even at the cost of historical realism. But this is just my interpretation of their preferences. I can't tell you for sure.

How would any of this interact with the world congress, assuming it returns?
I'm skeptical the world congress will return. The devs don't seem to like the idea much, considering they didn't bring it back for Beyond Earth or Civ 6. And it was always kind of a wonky idea to begin with. Who is this mysterious global power that is somehow capable of decreeing edicts that actual sovereign nations are unable to disobey? But assuming the world congress does return, and assuming it works the same way as before, where every city-state in your pocket gives you more votes, then the value of a district that gives you more influence points for earning envoys should be self-explanatory.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think combining them into one district would work. Maybe even a district solely built in your capital.
A building for Envoy generation (Legislative Building) based on the fact that consuls were elected by the Roman Senate
A building for ambassadors and diplomatic visibility (Embassy?)
A building for spies (Central Intelligence)

I don't know about bringing back the Diplomatic Victory though, since they have focused way too much on religion and don't believe they would want to add another victory type.
What would be a name for the different governments? I always thought that Merchant Republic should have got an extra diplomatic slot than a wild card anyway.
I thought that it was mentioned that the World Congress will most likely make a return, just not trigger any sort of victory.
Also there seem to be wonders mentioned in the release of the new board game that is based off of this game that might make it in: the Pentagon and the Kremlin.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Districts
I'm sure the developers are very proud of the mechanic, but you also have consider how making it a district might benefit the gameplay. For example, most districts have adjacency bonuses to improve their yields. Even those that don't provide yields still have factors which make it important to keep their placement in mind: An entertainment complex must be placed carefully to maximize the number of cities it can provide amenities to. Aqueducts can only be placed next to certain tiles, but compensate for placing a city away from water. Encampments need to be placed in a good defensive location. Spaceports are sort of exception to this, admittedly, but the point remains that it's important to consider how giving them their own district will benefit the diplomacy mechanics.

Governments:
I didn't mean that you couldn't fill it up or that it would be restrictive (it would be, but you could always go with another government, I suppose). There are certainly good bonuses in that category, but four seems a little extreme. The only other government to have 4 policies dedicated to one thing is Fascism for military policies, and that's a government which is pretty much built on the idea of world domination. Everything else maxes at three without modifiers, even the economic policies, of which there are roughly forty in total, 23 of which don't go obsolete. I still feel that 4 diplomacy slots is kind of an awkward choice, and that additional governments aren't really necessary in the first place.

Again, I do still like this idea. I even made some vaguely similar suggestions here.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

What would the names of the new governments be?
I'm terrible at naming things, especially in Civ, due to my limited knowledge of history. I was approaching this idea more from a game design perspective, on the assumption that the historical trappings could sort themselves out later. But if you really want to know, the names I had in my head were "allied coalition", "shadow cabal", and "secret society".

Placement should be important for districts.
I agree completely, 100%. Which is why I made sure both of the new districts I was proposing had benefits tied to placement. The inspiration came from China's unique improvement, the Great Wall. I thought, if they could make an improvement that cares about your own borders, then why not districts that care about foreign borders? Everything clicked after that.

How would the abundance of diplomatic card slots in the new governments work strategically?
All of the governments currently in the game encourage certain victory types. "Classical republic --> merchant republic --> democracy" is the path to follow for science victory and cultural victory, because those are the victory types most reliant on great people, and all of those governments have either built-in bonuses to great people generation or extra wildcard slots for more great people policies. "Oligarchy --> theocracy --> fascism" is the path for domination victory, as all of them help you field large and strong armies, while also having some benefits for religious victory in the midgame. "Autocracy --> monarchy --> communism" is the path for score victory, as they encourage you to play tall and build lots of wonders, as well as giving you a decent amount of military policies to protect your wonder-filled cities. So the reason the new governments I proposed have so many diplomatic policy slots is because they're designed to encourage the new diplomatic victory I suggested. Since that victory is reliant on city-state diplomacy and espionage, diplomatic policies are more useful than any other type when pursuing it.

 

[darkace77450]

I'm not sold on your criteria for winning a Diplomatic Victory. Thematically, it doens't seem right that a Diplomatic Victory can be achieved without any thought towards diplomacy with other Civs. Also, tying a Diplomatic Victory to espionage doesn't seem very fitting. Mechanically, being the Suzerain of every city-state is pretty exploitable since city-states can be destroyed in VI. Just make friends with one CS then destroy the rest and you've won a DV.

As to the rest, I'm not sure there's a real need for a diplomatic district. An embassy suite building in your city-center would work well enough. Have it unlock a city project that boosts Influence and that should be good enough. I do like the idea of an intelligence district. Great Spies could be really fun. Buildings could be a Constabulary, a Police Station, and an Intelligence Agency. Black is obviously an appropriate color for such a district and related buildings.

I wouldn't mind if Intelligence was an actual yield that we spent to launch espionage/counterintelligence missions, to be honest.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

What would the names of the new governments be?
I'm terrible at naming things, especially in Civ, due to my limited knowledge of history. I was approaching this idea more from a game design perspective, on the assumption that the historical trappings could sort themselves out later. But if you really want to know, the names I had in my head were "allied coalition", "shadow cabal", and "secret society".

As much as I would love to play as the Illuminati, you run into the problem of a secret society having a giant, clearly labeled capital city.

Placement should be important for districts.
I agree completely, 100%. Which is why I made sure both of the new districts I was proposing had benefits tied to placement. The inspiration came from China's unique improvement, the Great Wall. I thought, if they could make an improvement that cares about your own borders, then why not districts that care about foreign borders? Everything clicked after that.

Interesting idea, but I still feel it's not the ideal way to go about their placement benefits. Perhaps if they had a radius to reduce spy effectiveness in your own lands or increase diplomatic visibility or something like that. The empire-wide effects of the singular district, however, seems a bit too far reaching and would greatly reduce motivation to actually build the district or put thought into it's placement.

So the reason the new governments I proposed have so many diplomatic policy slots is because they're designed to encourage the new diplomatic victory I suggested.

I don't feel like this is a very stable game design philosophy, but I can't quite put into words why.

I wouldn't mind if Intelligence was an actual yield that we spent to launch espionage/counterintelligence missions, to be honest.

That was how it worked in Civ4. I actually tended to forget the espionage mechanics in that game, compared to here where I usually don't pay them much mind.

 

[Temppu]

A district for intelligence could work indeed. Currently spying is somewhat unbalanced in that counterspying in a wide empire would require a comparable amount of spies to the total number of districts empire wide, which would require an insanely large production investment. With a nicely placed intelligence district that has a building to, say, that protects all districts within 6 hexes from enemy spies, counterintelligence would become much more reasonable.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

So, where does everyone stand on the idea of having a single district? And what might this / these two district(s) be called?

 

[ExtremeGardens]

Great ideas here! I agree with making intelligence and diplomacy into one district as well. If you were going to hide a spy building, you'd disguise it as a government building (Although with the developer's wanting to make things clear, you'd be able to tell, anyway.)

I have been mulling over how to make the late game more fun, as well as getting a sense of the international community/cooperation across in the game, if there is going to be a Diplomatic Victory at some point. I think that the Diplomatic victory from Civ V of coups with city-states and drowning them in Gold did not really feel right. I would like to share my thoughts on some new game play mechanics, just for fun. It's probably not at all well-balanced. With all the +X% modifiers from mission completion you could potentially get, the base mission rewards may need to be toned down. The idea is the more you invest in Diplomacy, the better the rewards, but we have to be careful it doesn't eclipses other aspects of the game.

The Diplomat and their Missions

Keeping in line with previous civ title, the Diplomat works like a Spy, in that you can only support a certain number at any one time, and conduct missions abroad in other civilization’s districts. Completing these missions boosts relations, making the AI more friendly towards you, since the mission is designed to be beneficial to both civilizations. The AI will also conduct missions conducive to its victory type.

In addition to the effects listed below and boosting relations, completing a diplomatic mission also repairs all pillaged districts and building.

I imagine the AI may also come to you to make requests that you conduct certain types of mission for them. In multiplayer, you would do that through chat. Many of these appear to give your opponent advantages, but you can increase your own advantages even more with Policy Cards and building Embassies.

Also, since these missions are sort of public, there would be an interface to view all diplomats and their actions, according to you Diplomatic Visibility.

1. Holy Site – Conduct Interfaith Dialogue: Both civilization gain additional faith per turn equal to the faith output of target Holy Site. Both civilization gain either a burst of faith upon completion (no majority religion in civilization) or 1 Apostle and 2 Missionaries of the civilization’s majority religion.

2. Campus – Facilitate Research Conference: Both civilization gain a Researcher unit upon completion, which can be activated at a Campus to gain a burst of science. The amount of Science gained is equal to the higher science output between the 2 civilizations at the time of completion, times 3, 6, or a balanced number.

3. Encampment – Organized Training Exercise: All units of both civilizations gain 20 experience.

4. Commercial Hub – Administer Free Trade: Boosts Gold and Production from trade routes between the 2 civilizations during the mission. Outgoing trade routes receive +5 gold and +3 production. Incoming trade routes give +2 gold and +1 production. Multiple Diplomats working this mission does not stack.

5. Theater Square – Organize Arts Festival: Gain a burst of Culture, Great Writer, Artists and Musician points upon completion for both civilizations (Culture and GPP is equivalent to 3 Theatre Squares finishing the projects).

6. Entertainment Complex – Arrange Competitive Convention: Both civilization gains a unique luxury, which provides 2 amenities each. The unique luxury can be in a list according to eras. For example, gaming consoles, sporting items or titles, such as Archery Gear, VR Headset, Boxing Gloves, XCOM2, Civilization (the game) etc. (There are other things that makes more sense, but I just like this idea because it was funny.)

7. Industrial Zone – Organize Civil Seminar: Both civilization gain a Civil Engineer unit upon completion, which can be activated at an Industrial Zone to gain a burst of production. The amount of production gained is equal to the target city’s production at the time of the mission’s completion, times 6. Or some other number.

8. Harbour – Organize Luxury Cruise: and +1 Amenity and +25% Tourism output between the 2 civilizations while the mission is active (The +1 Amenity is distributed like an invisible luxury).

9. Neighborhood – Arrange International Food Festival: Both civilization gain a Celebrity Chef unit upon completion, which can be activated at a Neighbourhood (or City Centre) to instantly gain 2 Housing and a burst of food (Equivalent to clearing 3 marshes, or somesuch).

10. Diplomatic Quarters – Conduct Diplomatic Mission – Both Civilization gain 50 influence points at the mission’s completion. Greatly increase positive diplomatic modifiers between the 2 civs (more so than a normal mission), and erases previous diplomatic incident modifiers from any Spy actions (getting rid of both the negative relationship modifier and the mission speed loss).

11. (Spy Action) Diplomatic Quarters – Sabotage Diplomatic Relations – Covertly spark a diplomatic incidence between target civilization and another civ of your choice, reducing their relationship. Pillages all buildings in the district. All current and future diplomatic mission in this city take 2 extra turns to complete on standard speed.

The diplomat may also receive promotions like the spy, making her/him more effective in certain districts, or complete missions faster. Some ideas are:
1. Faster mission times.
2. Give 2 Civil Engineers instead of 1.
3. Gain influence points when completing missions.
4. Extra relations boost when completing mission.

The Diplomatic Quarter & Influence Points

As mentioned earlier, this is a combination of the 2 proposed diplomatic and intelligence district. Becomes available with the Diplomatic Service Civic. +1 Influence points. Allows the recruitment of Diplomats and Spies in this city. +1 Diplomat capacity. (Until a maximum number equal to the number of opposing players on the map.)

Other effects listed by the OP are also interesting too, such as giving Envoys when built next to a City-State. Here is my take on the buildings.

1st Tier Building: +1 Influence point per turn.

2nd Tier Consulate: +2 Influence point per turn. Gains from diplomatic missions are increased by 5%, including activating units gained from them.
OR
2nd Tier Secret Hideout: +3 Influence point per turn. Spies trained in this city starts with a free promotion.

3rd Tier Building: Embassies from other Civilizations, with a unique graphic for each geographical location, or better yet, each civ. +3 Influence points. Gains from diplomatic missions to this Embassy’s civ is increased by 50%. Boosts Diplomatic modifier between the civs. Must have 'Exchanged Embassies' with the other civ (Just like the thing we have now, but it's both ways, immediately). Becomes pillaged upon declaration of war.
OR
3rd Tier Building: Covert Operations: +50% faster Spy production. +5 Influence points per turn. Spies trained in this city starts with a free promotion. So you can quickly replace dead spies with new ones.

In addition to using Influence to generate Envoys, you could spend Influence points to 'Rush' Spy or Diplomat mission, so it completes instantly (Or in the case of Spy missions, may fails instantly).

The faster influence point generation from the Spy building is to take into account that you could generate much more influence from diplomatic missions.

I imagine it would affect your voting power in the World Congress somehow (if it comes back), but I have not thought of it.

Changes to Existing Building
Library: +10% of science gained from Researchers in this city
University: +10% of science gained from Researchers in this city
Laboratory: +10% of science gained from Researchers in this city

Workshop: +10% of production gained from Civil Engineers in this city
Factory: +10% of production gained from Civil Engineers in this city
Power Plant: +10% of production gained from Civil Engineers in this city

Granary: +10% of food gained from Celebrity Chefs in this city
Aqueduct: +10% of food gained from Celebrity Chefs in this city
Neighborhood: +10% of food gained from Celebrity Chefs in this city

The idea of these buildings is to maximize your gains over your opponent, for all those min-maxers.

New Policy Cards
Sports Funding – Economic – Unique Luxury from Diplomatic Missions gives 4 amenities instead of 2. Hilarious if your unique luxuries are gaming titles.
Charitable Missions – Diplomatic – Gains from diplomatic missions are increased by 25%, including activating units gained from them.
International Cooperation Treaties – Diplomatic Missions are conducted 25% faster. (I’d imagine you’d want to pass this if you want a Diplo victory, but go against this if you are warmongering or going for religious victory, since it makes science and cultural victory comes faster.)
Closer Economic Relations – Diplomatic – Sending a Trade Route to an Ally’s city instantly create a Trading Post in that city. Trading Posts provides +1 Gold and +1 Food. (So you can finally reach all those pesky City-States quest to send trade routs half way across the world, and get more lucrative routes.)

New Civics
Foreign Aid – Enables Charitable Missions diplomatic policy card.

New Wonders
Great Firewall/Pentagon - Your Civilization is immune to "Sabotage Diplomatic Relations" Spy action. Censorship/Mass Media Civic?
Apostolic Palace - Grant you 2 free diplomats. Unlocks with something before Diplomatic Service, giving you a head start.

New City-States
Ayutthaya - Commercial. +5% Influence points for each trade route to a city-state.

Balance Changes & the Diplomatic Victory
1. Increased the Science and Culture costs of techs and civics from the Renaissance onward - conducting diplomatic missions then becomes more lucrative to seek culture and science from a few partners. Or, if you prefer to be more insular, just build more campuses or theater squares.
2. Gains from diplomatic missions are increased by 25% for Declared friends, including activating units gained from them. +50% for Allies.
3. The vote for world leader would somehow depend on the number of Suzerain city states, as well as the number of allies and declared friends. Perhaps each civilization gets a vote from each City state, as well as from any civ they are declared friends or allied (This is automatic). The flavor here is that you have conducted so many missions to improve both your civ and theirs, that they are content to let you be the World Leader.
4. -50% yields from diplomatic missions from Denounced opponents.
5. -25% yields from diplomatic missions from different government/ideology.
6. Mission completes 25% faster with Open Borders.
5. All Diplomats are evacuated in the event of a war declaration.

This has been my longest post, ever. Thank you if you have read it this far.

 

[Vahnstad]

- World Congress / UN / League of Nations-mechanic
- Diplomatic / Economic Victory
- Colonization Mechanics (maybe inspired by civ iv: colonization?)
- Random events?
- Weather / Climate: Maps drawn more realistically
- Lots of wonders, natural wonders, civics, techs and new leaders
- Natural disasters / plagues
- Rebellion (-> although that could be kinda annoying, esp. on higher difficulties)
- vassalage and more enhanced diplomatic mechanics
- diplomaticy overhaul: alliance -> alliance. AI more likely to propose joint wars.

It would be fun to see for each tile the specific weather conditions and those change per turn (but some area's are more prone to certain weather conditions). Maybe the tiles can change as well, according to climate change. Or maybe something like seasons, or an ice age / normal climate / global warming mechanic. They can have a certain lense for climate / weather. Coastal tiles can be struck by hurricanes, and the new building: shelter could give protection to your population. There could be a UN mechanic project where civilizations invest hammers, food or money to find a solution for those climate changes, or help city-states when they're struck by a disaster. Food, hammers and money can be invested (food for the pops, hammers to rebuild everything, money to finance the rebuild).

They can also have a new lense if a plague would break out. There could be new buildings like a hospital, and so on, and there could be a lense to see where those diseases have struck and where they didn't struck (yet). There could be a UN mechanic project where civilizations invest hammers or money to find a cure for a certain plague, esp. for deadly diseases (you could even reverse Plague Inc. where the plague is now the AI and not the player, and the civs / government who tries to find a cure, is now the player and not the AI.). There could be a specific scenario where civilizations have to stop a zombie invasion.

Another possibility is that leaders of a civ could die. There could be periods of regencies and then a new leader will be elected, like for example. Pericles dies in 400 BC. There is a regency (a period of less growth, less production and less income, and in 100 AD Gorgo is the new civ leader of Greece for example. But i think that's a bit hard to implement for a game like civ where everything is much leader-focused.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Great ideas here!

Thanks. I liked quite a few of the ideas in your post as well. I like the idea of being able to perform specialized diplomatic projects, though I would probably skip from providing units which provide yields straight to providing yields or independently functional units. I also don't think every district needs its own diplomatic mission, but it's definitely neat.

I actually didn't mind being able to spent gold to earn city state alliances, and I thought coups where actually pretty cool. I'd like to see that return

I don't know if I'd have two building-choice dilemmas in this "Intelligence Center" district, just one should be enough. Also, I think actually spending espionage resources on City States is the best way to represent increased potential to influence city state workings, but maybe that's just me.

The idea that you can negotiate from the leader screen conditions which will impact the effectiveness of your diplomat units is also quite nice.

-Mechanics

Health, climate change and vassalage would be neat features to see return from Civ4. I actually had a similar idea for Health a few years ago, where low health cities spawned diseases which spread by city connections and trade routes.

There could be a specific scenario where civilizations have to stop a zombie invasion

Thanks again to Civ4, something like that isn't entirely without precedent.