Idea: Include a 'Holy Land'

[DukEngnr]

I had an idea recently that I think would add an interesting twist to Civilization. Bare with me here. What if at a randomly generated point in time, a randomly selected capital city was deemed 'holy'. They could use the word 'holy' so that way it is applicaple to all religions.

Once this holy-staus is established, there is some sort of mega-incentive to capture it with a new victory condition, i.e. controling the city continously for 1000 years or something. Perhaps something could be included so that the holy city has some sort of anti-raze ability.. or if it is razed you have an unremovable black-eye on your diplomatic status.

Anyways, I don't know if this has been discussed, I'm relatively new to the boards. Maybe some of you think it too closely parallels current events, but I just thought it would provide an interesting way to focus military aggression and paranoia.

Late.

 

[Crimson Sunrise]

Sounds fun but controversial. Some audiences wouldn't like it if the Persians ended up with Delhi, or the Germans ended up with London.

 

[DukEngnr]

I agree about the controversial aspect, and assume it's probably the main reason we don't see it in the game.

 

[Maple]

Isn't this game supposed to simulate any kind of world scenario? If Russia were to take over America, couldn't that be called contriversial? What is more likely is that Firaxis didn't put it in the game, becuase noone thought of it, or because they thought it wouldn't affect the game very much.

But I like your idea. What would the bonus be? 1000 points added to your score? Maybe increased happiness/culture in all cities?

 

[zeeter]

I don't know if I like the idea that the city is a victory condition. Maybe there could be a strictly culture wonder. This would be an extremely early wonder, and the culture gained from it would improve over time at a higher rate than other culture structures do, to the point where it is almost a must - have city. Perhaps we could include a higher population growth rate for this city. Also, it would be considered an atrocity to conquer this city.
Furthermore, I believe that cultural structures go back to minimum culture produced if the city is captured. This wonder wouldn't.

 

[bobgote]

Yeah, make it a great wonder. Whoever controls it gets a huge culture boost for one. (not takeable by culture flip). No razeable. Maybe a victory condition, maybe not. Sounds like a good idea!

 

[Masquerouge]

Or something like if you have more than x points in culture and more than x religious buildings in your empire plus x religious wonders in the same city, then baaam, this city becomes a holy city.
I'd make it a small wonder, though. Like enabling religious abilities for non-religious civs, and giving special bonus for religious one (more culture-flips ??)

 

[zeeter]

I have an idea based on Masquerouge's post. Maybe he's already saying this, but I'm not picking it up. How about we have three small wonders. If my civ builds the first one first it is worth more than if another civ builds it first. So if there are six civs, I get the most culture from it, and the sixth civ gets the least culture from it.
This will work the same way for all three small wonders. Plus, If I am the first to build each one (1st on the first wonder, 2nd, and 3rd) I get an even larger culture hit. Plus, these wonders work together, so if they are in the same city I get the original culture, plus that city is deemed the holy city and I get added benefits that I haven't thought of yet.

 

[Masquerouge]

I was not saying this, but both our ideas are possible.
And great, of course.

 

[Jaygatz]

I've always considered whatever city has the Sistine Chapel to be my "holy land" that we must take from/ protect from the infidels.

 

[DukEngnr]

Originally posted by Jaygatz
I've always considered whatever city has the Sistine Chapel to be my "holy land" that we must take from/ protect from the infidels.

I like that idea Jay, and i think I'll steal it for future games It'll add a little spice to those games where you're looking for a reason to maim (i guess some of you maim simply for the sake of maiming, hehe).

 

[Pygzilla]

taking a holy site would have to result in greater than normal resistors. and longer lived.
They would keep popping up years after the city fell unless you made concessions.

 

[Frodo Bolson]

The problem with a random city declared "holy", would be that the civilization that is benefit from that random factor and receive a holy city would be in a greater advantage than the others. He has just to send units to fortify inside, while the others have to stop their current business and send all their forces to take control of that city.

And also, more than a problem with muslims, indians, germans, british or whatever, I find the idea disgusting in a concept base. First, religion should be based in generic and human possesions (love, compassion, forgiveness, understanding, etc), not in material possesions like cities. Material things (cities, chapels, cathedrals, etc) may help but are not the important thing, the same way as clothes emphasize the male or female but do not make the human to be male or female. And second, how can it be that people pretend to honour such high values they deem as "holy" doing exactly the opposite? Unless we talk about Mars, Odin or other war god, "holy" and "war" are completely opposite things

 

[Silent Assassin]

i think the great wonder is the best idea but instead of it becoming available to build after a certin discovery
it becomes available for every civ to build at a certen year in the game for example when the years switch from BC to AD it becomes available

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by Silent Assassin
i think the great wonder is the best idea but instead of it becoming available to build after a certin discovery
it becomes available for every civ to build at a certen year in the game for example when the years switch from BC to AD it becomes available

I disagree, i think it should have a tech or culture trigger. Maybe when your civ gets a certain amount of culture, or a certain number of cathedrals. (probably former to make it fair for smaller civs). Only civs with the best amount of culture should get the chance to do it. I don't think culture gets a big enough run in this game, this could even it up

Also I really think to work it can only happen in one civ, therefore the great wonder.

 

[zeeter]

Ok - great idea coming: Every Civ gets to built a small wonder representing the holy land. If one civ captures each of the cities with a holy land wonder, he wins. If the city is destroyed, a holy land victory cannot be achieved. If the civ holding the holy land razes it the process is considered an atrocity and everyone will go to war with him. If not, the holy land wonders will be great cultural achievements, and to have two or three would help tremendously in a cultural victory condition.

 

[zeeter]

Frodo Bolson - the game uses several concepts which may be considered "disgusting" (to use your term). There are nukes, pop-rushing, and slavery (capturing foreign workers) to name a few. There are also wonders of the world which were created in real life by slaves.
Religion in Civ3 is not very generic to begin with. We don't have mosques, or shrines, or synagogues; we have cathedrals and chapels - which are basically Christian.
That said, regardless of your concepts of no material possessions to represent religion there are numerous religious material possessions in the world today. The middle east, for example. I don't want to name them all because I may misspell them thus insulting someone.
At the risk of turning this into some philosophical discussion, you are right; the material possessions do not make the religion. However, they are monuments to the religion and should, therefore, be included in this game.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by zeeter
. . . and chapels . . .

Temples.

 

[zeeter]

In contrast to my post, I have heard of "going to a synagogue" as "going to the Temple." Also, Zachriel, I was referring to the Sistine Chapel.

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by zeeter
Ok - great idea coming: Every Civ gets to built a small wonder representing the holy land. If one civ captures each of the cities with a holy land wonder, he wins. If the city is destroyed, a holy land victory cannot be achieved. If the civ holding the holy land razes it the process is considered an atrocity and everyone will go to war with him. If not, the holy land wonders will be great cultural achievements, and to have two or three would help tremendously in a cultural victory condition.

Waiting for the great idea....