Idea involving religion/wonders (probably a bad one)

[McA123]

Ok, so today I was thinking about good ol' fashioned RoC, and I remembered that the religion system in it was that each civ belonged to a certain group of religion, and there were wonders pertaining to each religion. This resulted in wonders being built within somewhat historically accurate settings. So I was thinking, would it be possible, or a good idea to do that in RFC? With the actual religion system, a city could be required to have a certain religion in order to build a wonder. If more wonders were put in (which I could see happening in the distant future), this would be a more useful concept.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but I figured that I might as well give 'er and see what everyone thought.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

I like that idea. In fact I implement that in my own mods. I'm not so sure that it would fit in this mod because of balancing(theres already serious balance issues already ) and among other things although I would love to see that.

 

[Stacmon]

Unfortunately, the difference in the handling of religions in Civ 4 makes this a lot more difficult. Without doubling or tripling the number of religions, (unrealistic given religious mechanics in this game) there's no way to recreate the old feature.

As far as I know, religions in RoC for Civ 3 had their major impact on buildable wonders. This therefore didn't include relations, line of sight, shrine income or buildings.

If we want to simulate accurate wonder production, it'd be more effective to limit wonder production to civs through coding. Another alternative if we wanted to make it city specific instead of civ specific, would be to create "invisible" resources required for each wonder's production and place them on the city plots. This way, the city's traditional owner would usually build the wonder, but if the city/civ was conquered, the ruling part could "build it on their behalf."

What do you guys think about something like that?

 

[Phallus]

I wouldn't mind seeing limited religious influence on what you can build providing they're religious structures rather than secular ones. It would be nice if the Spiral Minaret could only be constructed in a town with Islam and the Sistine Chapel in a town with Christianity, but we should avoid going overboard and trying to link culture groups with religions.

If we want to simulate accurate wonder production, it'd be more effective to limit wonder production to civs through coding. Another alternative if we wanted to make it city specific instead of civ specific, would be to create "invisible" resources required for each wonder's production and place them on the city plots. This way, the city's traditional owner would usually build the wonder, but if the city/civ was conquered, the ruling part could "build it on their behalf."

This would satisfy the anal retentive in all of us, but I've thought about this one before and it is too deterministic. I wouldn't mind limiting pre-industrial wonders through 'culture sets' (so only Mediterranean civs could build the Temple of Artemis and Kulkulkan can only be built in Mesoamerica etc) as this would greatly improve accuracy without giving the effect of scripted wonder production. For balance and realism it may be necessary to keep wonders like Stonehenge, The Great Library, The Oracle and post-Industrial wonders like the Eiffel Tower and 'Rock & Roll' as universally available.

Otherwise, how do you think this suggestion would play out?

 

[SadoMacho]

I wouldn't mind seeing limited religious influence on what you can build providing they're religious structures rather than secular ones. It would be nice if the Spiral Minaret could only be constructed in a town with Islam and the Sistine Chapel in a town with Christianity, but we should avoid going overboard and trying to link culture groups with religions.

I have been thinking of proposing this too. Like it very much SO :

Ankkor Wat with Hindusim or Budhism
Notre Dame Christianity
Hagia Sophia Christianity/Islam
Sistine Chaple Christianity
Spiral Minart Islam

But this needs to be balanced a bit, as taoism, Confusianism and judaism have no wonders.

For Angkor Wat and Kulkulkan we could code that they would need a jungle in the fat cross of the city.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

For Taoism we could move Dai Miao(?) as a Wonder. Same with other religions. Then we need new shrines...

 

[Aeon221]

Or we could remove one of the four eastern religions, since there are four of them for three civs.

 

[McA123]

*cough* taoism *cough*

But when I proposed that, I meant only for some wonders. Modern era wonders like the Eiffel Tower and Wembley shouldn't require religion, but the wonders that I had in mind, were rather the Spiral Minaret and oter religion-based wonders, and maybe the temple of kukulkan could require there to be no religion in the city? This would improve the chances of it being built by the Incas or Aztecs but not guarantee it.

 

[Rhye]

i was thinking about binding wonders to civs rather than religion. That is, a UW.
But I still have some empty space to fill in my list (carthage, vikings) to make it complete

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Well well, Rhye has always some surprises.

Viking UW could be some big burial site, as there aren't any architectural achievements for Vikings. Carthaginian UW could be Harbor of Carthage. Though it hasn't got a specific name, I can't think any better. Or mosaics of Leptis Magna.

Found 'em on Wikipedia.

 

[McA123]

Well in RoC, there was the Temple of Baal...
And as for the Vikings it could be some sort of epic/saga or something...

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Yes, saga would be good, but I can't think a physical form of an tale. Or Rhye could make some "Harbor of Bergen," which allows galleys to sail through rivers(that way they went from Novgorod to Byzantium, using rivers and carrying small boats through small land areas).

Temple of Baal. Why I didn't think about that? Though I'm not sure about evidence of it's existence.

 

[SadoMacho]

The harbor of Chartage sound much beter to me. It was maybe the biggest in the classical age. Allthough it sound a lot like the UB for chartage.

I once heard about a island that was a training centre for viking raiders, but I can't remember its name.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Do you remember where it was? Was it big or small?

 

[SadoMacho]

I think it was Bornholm in the Eastsee, but I am not sure. But it was in the Eastsee. Could have been Gotland or Öland, or a very small island, I don't know anymore.

 

[Phallus]

Perhaps the Vikings could have some sort of Trelleborg castle?

 

[Prestidigitator]

i was thinking about binding wonders to civs rather than religion. That is, a UW.
But I still have some empty space to fill in my list (carthage, vikings) to make it complete

That would be possible to do without any balance issues if we do one thing:
1. Each civ would have 1 or 2 unique wonders (UWs), which would expire with time (Ie: the Babylonians can't build the Hanging Gardens say after ~500 BC).
2. The UWs would have to balance out so that we don't get civs that are disadvantaged.
Some civs already are di-wondered :

Babylon       Hanging Gardends and Spiral Minaret.
Rome          Circus Maximus and Pisa.
America       Hollywood and Statue of Liberty.
Egypt         Lighthouse* and Pyramids.

[I][B]*[/B]they didn't build it technically but we can assign it to them given that it was in Egypt.[/I]

you work it out for the rest .

How about that?

 

[McA123]

If those wonders and other already existing wonders are all assigned to Civs, then we're pretty much out of wonders buildable by all civs...
I think any (or most) civ-assigned wonders should be new...

 

[Prestidigitator]

If those wonders and other already existing wonders are all assigned to Civs, then we're pretty much out of wonders buildable by all civs...
I think any (or most) civ-assigned wonders should be new...

Sorry McA, perhaps I didn't explain myself sufficiently . I meant that we need wonders (whether existing or whether the assets for them are to be created) for every civ.

Some civs already have 2 wonders created for them (Babylon, Egypt, Greece, America), others still need more to be created for them.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

I think it was Bornholm in the Eastsee, but I am not sure. But it was in the Eastsee. Could have been Gotland or Öland, or a very small island, I don't know anymore.

I think it's Öland, it was the only island in where Wikipedia mentioned Vikings.

Raider Camp of Öland
Effects: +2 experience for melee units, grants 3 berserkers, grants 15 GG points.