Ideas and Suggestions
- Thread starter Gilgamesch
- Start date
beewyka819
Warlord
I have an idea. I have a mod that has the worker unit have 75% build speed. But later can be upgraded to builder for about 125% build speed. Then Mechanic for 175% build speed. I was wondering if you could implement a system similar to this?
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
Laborer > Worker > Civil Engineer.
Thats how we handle it in CCTP, with the next version and additional late game resources, the Civil Engineer will be very powerfull, because he can only build this improvements.
Since we give a lot of % boni for workers via buildings and policies and dont think there should be any more boni at all.
Thats how we handle it in CCTP, with the next version and additional late game resources, the Civil Engineer will be very powerfull, because he can only build this improvements.
Since we give a lot of % boni for workers via buildings and policies and dont think there should be any more boni at all.
Pioneer Boyscou
Chieftain
MILITARY ALLIANCES
Do AI create defensive pacts with other AIs?, For example when sharing same ideology or religion?
Would it be possible to gift units to other Civ? Sometimes you do not wish to engage in an open war, but you would like to support a fellow Civ with some (spare) units.
Do AI create defensive pacts with other AIs?, For example when sharing same ideology or religion?
Would it be possible to gift units to other Civ? Sometimes you do not wish to engage in an open war, but you would like to support a fellow Civ with some (spare) units.
Using v. 4.05 V3 (6)...latest build from play-testing release.
After some moderate problems regarding to play with more mods (Civ IV Diplo, using CS troops while allied, arround 34 modded civs to add more flavor), lately I started CCTP just without any further mod. Using Earth script map with changed landscape. Huge map with 34 civs.
Currently I am on turn 375, switching from Pre-historic to Ancient with tech. Started as Babylon in the area of Barcelona. Next neighbours where in Denmark and Austria, so only room for 2-3 more cities on the edges (Portugal, Italy, Greece) before expansion is over. My 2 next neighbours didn't invest into colonies, so I was able to expand a bit and was even able to reach scandinavia with my settlers. So far I refused all attempts to go to war, as I am not sure if it gets me too much into warmongering too early.
So by revewing my progress over time, i have some suggestions, most of them regarding pre-historic area for now, but also regarding map size and DLL:
- please include Whowards DLL instead of forcing players to install a second mod to allow your mod to be played. It is quite confusing, anyhow I was able to do it. But I guess you aren't aiming to only build your mod for computer experts. Whoward does a very good job, but for my taste his database is a bit confusing. I never got a notice about that only 1 of his DLL could be running at a time. You just offer a link to Whoward, but do never point out WHICH DLL you should pick...2nd confusion.
Lately I'd vote to include his 34 civ DLL into your mod, as you are able to play with less without any problem.
- this brings me directly to my next request about map size. As I started without any other mods to have stability with CCTP, it was quite challenging with 34 civs on a huge earth map. Found 2/3 of all civs within pre-historic age...so it simply cuts off the interest of exploring and scouting for the next ages. I do remember a mod, which expands the size of maps in Civ5, from large to gigantic and huge to monster. Am not sure if I found it at Civ:BE or can't find it again in Civ5 workshop. But it would perfectly fit for your very huge CCTP project and Whowards 34 civ DLL
- next concern was, what is if you are stucked on a peninsula? You can't expand, as you are not able to send settlers over the sea...what directly leads to early warmongering or your keen ideas about a leading role ends quite drastically. Well, I was lucky to have some roome for expansion, but it would be a good idea to allow some early embarking...probably by certain wonders which then offer a given number of sea transports.
- by reaching Ancient era, I could call myself King Midas...I could easily flood the whole world with gold. Arround 10k in stock currently. Don't know how you guys planned the economics, but it seems too powerful at the moment. I really appreciated those events with thiefs and other problems to cut off some income. But...well, it only cuts off a given sum like 10 or 20 gold. To cut off a percentage of your bank cash would be more challenging and brings people into thinking about the law & order business.
- as for spreading out colonies/new cities...it is way too easy to expand your empire just in pre-historic era. Wouldn't it be more interesting to limit your cities just as you limit troops by manpower? I guess one could manage it by tech, culture or believe. As far I understand pre-historic society right, it simply won't work to rule a continent wide empire at this stage of culture. It is necessary to have some leadership for this case, which could be established by kingdom, religious ties and/or at least common enemy. So expansion a pre-historic empire into more then 2-3 cities might need improoved culture or founding a common believe. Or you just expand over your limit and get punished by secession or even into civil war. Lately there should be some mechanics about. I really liked the old Revolution mod, which founded some more civs or CS in the process.
- Religion. Well...it was astounding for me, that you need a Prophecy before you could found a believe. And, I was really fast outnumbered because I couldn't found a Prophecy anyhow founding of a believe was still possible. So...how you handle this? Is there a possibility to re-open the religious chapter later on? I think some believes have been founded against some believe people didn't want to join. My idea in here is, to have normal number of Religions, but when a believe reaches your cities first, why not giving the challenge to found a counter-believe? I'm not sure about, but if you cut-half the normal number of Religions there should be a possible chance to do it.
- had some issues about resources not showing on map (latest build 29th of dec)...but it could also be, they'll show up later. Missing some fish, crab on the map...
- as I tried to start with Civ IV Diplo mod, I'm looking forward to some enhanced diplomatic abilities. One civ is able to survive if you join your overwhelming enemy by vassalage and re-establish your power by withdrawing from them in a later era. Your CCTP mod aims for the whole timescale, so I think such diplomatic options are a must...or you re-load old savegames once you are crushed. But I found it very challenging to see if your civ could survive till the end of times. Additionally it opens up different strategies of surviving, while you aren't bound to conquering your neighbours.
All in all, I am very impressed by your good work and can't wait to find out what Ancient era might bring on ideas and surprises.
After some moderate problems regarding to play with more mods (Civ IV Diplo, using CS troops while allied, arround 34 modded civs to add more flavor), lately I started CCTP just without any further mod. Using Earth script map with changed landscape. Huge map with 34 civs.
Currently I am on turn 375, switching from Pre-historic to Ancient with tech. Started as Babylon in the area of Barcelona. Next neighbours where in Denmark and Austria, so only room for 2-3 more cities on the edges (Portugal, Italy, Greece) before expansion is over. My 2 next neighbours didn't invest into colonies, so I was able to expand a bit and was even able to reach scandinavia with my settlers. So far I refused all attempts to go to war, as I am not sure if it gets me too much into warmongering too early.
So by revewing my progress over time, i have some suggestions, most of them regarding pre-historic area for now, but also regarding map size and DLL:
- please include Whowards DLL instead of forcing players to install a second mod to allow your mod to be played. It is quite confusing, anyhow I was able to do it. But I guess you aren't aiming to only build your mod for computer experts. Whoward does a very good job, but for my taste his database is a bit confusing. I never got a notice about that only 1 of his DLL could be running at a time. You just offer a link to Whoward, but do never point out WHICH DLL you should pick...2nd confusion.
Lately I'd vote to include his 34 civ DLL into your mod, as you are able to play with less without any problem.
- this brings me directly to my next request about map size. As I started without any other mods to have stability with CCTP, it was quite challenging with 34 civs on a huge earth map. Found 2/3 of all civs within pre-historic age...so it simply cuts off the interest of exploring and scouting for the next ages. I do remember a mod, which expands the size of maps in Civ5, from large to gigantic and huge to monster. Am not sure if I found it at Civ:BE or can't find it again in Civ5 workshop. But it would perfectly fit for your very huge CCTP project and Whowards 34 civ DLL
- next concern was, what is if you are stucked on a peninsula? You can't expand, as you are not able to send settlers over the sea...what directly leads to early warmongering or your keen ideas about a leading role ends quite drastically. Well, I was lucky to have some roome for expansion, but it would be a good idea to allow some early embarking...probably by certain wonders which then offer a given number of sea transports.
- by reaching Ancient era, I could call myself King Midas...I could easily flood the whole world with gold. Arround 10k in stock currently. Don't know how you guys planned the economics, but it seems too powerful at the moment. I really appreciated those events with thiefs and other problems to cut off some income. But...well, it only cuts off a given sum like 10 or 20 gold. To cut off a percentage of your bank cash would be more challenging and brings people into thinking about the law & order business.
- as for spreading out colonies/new cities...it is way too easy to expand your empire just in pre-historic era. Wouldn't it be more interesting to limit your cities just as you limit troops by manpower? I guess one could manage it by tech, culture or believe. As far I understand pre-historic society right, it simply won't work to rule a continent wide empire at this stage of culture. It is necessary to have some leadership for this case, which could be established by kingdom, religious ties and/or at least common enemy. So expansion a pre-historic empire into more then 2-3 cities might need improoved culture or founding a common believe. Or you just expand over your limit and get punished by secession or even into civil war. Lately there should be some mechanics about. I really liked the old Revolution mod, which founded some more civs or CS in the process.
- Religion. Well...it was astounding for me, that you need a Prophecy before you could found a believe. And, I was really fast outnumbered because I couldn't found a Prophecy anyhow founding of a believe was still possible. So...how you handle this? Is there a possibility to re-open the religious chapter later on? I think some believes have been founded against some believe people didn't want to join. My idea in here is, to have normal number of Religions, but when a believe reaches your cities first, why not giving the challenge to found a counter-believe? I'm not sure about, but if you cut-half the normal number of Religions there should be a possible chance to do it.
- had some issues about resources not showing on map (latest build 29th of dec)...but it could also be, they'll show up later. Missing some fish, crab on the map...
- as I tried to start with Civ IV Diplo mod, I'm looking forward to some enhanced diplomatic abilities. One civ is able to survive if you join your overwhelming enemy by vassalage and re-establish your power by withdrawing from them in a later era. Your CCTP mod aims for the whole timescale, so I think such diplomatic options are a must...or you re-load old savegames once you are crushed. But I found it very challenging to see if your civ could survive till the end of times. Additionally it opens up different strategies of surviving, while you aren't bound to conquering your neighbours.
All in all, I am very impressed by your good work and can't wait to find out what Ancient era might bring on ideas and surprises.
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
Thanks for the feedback.
*The huge map size is already altered and !/4 bigger then the normal one.
If its not to much work we could maybe add later a gigantic map.
But for now this needs to be changed by every player if he like to play it this way.
I can explain how to change it, if needed.
PS with all the content in CCTP the late game one gigantic maps will take hours for a few turns, even if you have a super computer.
*I dont think traveling over the sea with settlers in the pre_historic era would make sense.
Also if you could, and you would find a lonly island, then this isle will be swarmed by barbarians.
This means only the human player could clear it, and this would be a big impact for the ai.
*There are some ways to get early faith, i.e. early buildings or a golden age.
Since most of the code for Religion is hardcoded, it would be a lot of work to make your suggestions work, and even if the would work, the ai will not understand it.
*The huge map size is already altered and !/4 bigger then the normal one.
If its not to much work we could maybe add later a gigantic map.
But for now this needs to be changed by every player if he like to play it this way.
I can explain how to change it, if needed.
PS with all the content in CCTP the late game one gigantic maps will take hours for a few turns, even if you have a super computer.
*I dont think traveling over the sea with settlers in the pre_historic era would make sense.
Also if you could, and you would find a lonly island, then this isle will be swarmed by barbarians.
This means only the human player could clear it, and this would be a big impact for the ai.
*There are some ways to get early faith, i.e. early buildings or a golden age.
Since most of the code for Religion is hardcoded, it would be a lot of work to make your suggestions work, and even if the would work, the ai will not understand it.
If not getting a prophet early enough to found a religion before they are all taken is a problem, I could always add an event that increased the chance of getting one based on the number of religions founded relevant to number of total allowed.
(I could also just code it to automatically give one if a certain number have been founded, but some may consider that cheating)
(I could also just code it to automatically give one if a certain number have been founded, but some may consider that cheating)
I've never had any trouble founding a religion in the pre-historic era. Just get the idols tech to build the building that gives faith on forest/jungle tiles and you should be able to get a religion in time. If you're first city doesn't have any/much forest, I think I usually get the event that gives a free settler before turn 50, and I usually try to settle in a forested area. Also, if you're not playing on deity, the free settler event is a little OP, as is the Nimrod wonder if you can get it.
On the topic of events, I currently seem to be getting the same events in the same order every game. It might be nice to add some variety/randomness into the system. Mix up the order of events and for events that don't give large bonuses, make them repeatable every 50 or so turns.
As a compromise for expanding in prehistoric, you could try moving the embarkation promotion to the wayfarer tech (kinda makes sense). You could reduce the strength by giving this promotion a movement penalty (wayfarer embarkation only allows 1 tile movement per turn (ie treat coast like a forested tile or something) and ancient era tech embarkation allows the normal 2 tile movement per turn). Hopefully this makes sense and is possible.
Totally agree with the unbalance of gold. Most of this seems to be due to the fact that rivers give +1 gold per tile. Personally I think it makes more sense to add +1 food per river tile. Also with gold, I noticed in vanilla civ v and many mods (this one included) some buildings have a maintenance and give gold (ie maintenance=1, gold produced=2). Why not just get rid of the maintenance and changed the produced gold to the net value?
Also, I mentioned this in another thread, but it I think it got missed because it was in the wrong area. It would be nice if most/all of the luxury and bonus resources were visible before you could build settlers. This way you had a better idea of where to found cities. Same goes for wonders - it is a bit odd that you can build wonders that give bonuses to stone in the pre-history era when you can't even see stone until the ancient era. Stone really should be one of the first resources you can see.
All in all though, you guys are doing an amazing job with this mod. If you need any help, I love coding and hunting for bugs.
On the topic of events, I currently seem to be getting the same events in the same order every game. It might be nice to add some variety/randomness into the system. Mix up the order of events and for events that don't give large bonuses, make them repeatable every 50 or so turns.
As a compromise for expanding in prehistoric, you could try moving the embarkation promotion to the wayfarer tech (kinda makes sense). You could reduce the strength by giving this promotion a movement penalty (wayfarer embarkation only allows 1 tile movement per turn (ie treat coast like a forested tile or something) and ancient era tech embarkation allows the normal 2 tile movement per turn). Hopefully this makes sense and is possible.
Totally agree with the unbalance of gold. Most of this seems to be due to the fact that rivers give +1 gold per tile. Personally I think it makes more sense to add +1 food per river tile. Also with gold, I noticed in vanilla civ v and many mods (this one included) some buildings have a maintenance and give gold (ie maintenance=1, gold produced=2). Why not just get rid of the maintenance and changed the produced gold to the net value?
Also, I mentioned this in another thread, but it I think it got missed because it was in the wrong area. It would be nice if most/all of the luxury and bonus resources were visible before you could build settlers. This way you had a better idea of where to found cities. Same goes for wonders - it is a bit odd that you can build wonders that give bonuses to stone in the pre-history era when you can't even see stone until the ancient era. Stone really should be one of the first resources you can see.
All in all though, you guys are doing an amazing job with this mod. If you need any help, I love coding and hunting for bugs.
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
To be honest i have no the time to play this current version, what is a shame 
So i need the feedback more then ever, to get a feeling whats good and whats bad.
That the Gold is no problem in the eraly game, is probably the result of the new yield system, what also should help the ai to get better started.
The river is very important for every improvement in the current version, all improvements get a bonus while build on a river.
The farm gets +1 Food and the Trading Post +1 Gold i.e., sure i could remove the the +1 Gold from Rivers, but i would prefer to walk other ways.
We could just increase the Gold value of each era, and adjust some events to make them % Gold loss insteas of ie 20 Gold.
The vanilla game just gives the option to embark, there is no setting to allow 1 or more tiles its hardcoded.
So we would need to create a workarround for this.
Hmm i also should explain why buildings have maintaince, if a buildings doesnt have a maintaince cost it cant be selled, and also the building maintence growth each era, so that the buildings will cost much more in the late game.
Oh
PS.
We have still many places that need altered, iam just really busy this days, i think i will get more time on this weekend to get a feeling where a helping hand is needed
So i need the feedback more then ever, to get a feeling whats good and whats bad.
That the Gold is no problem in the eraly game, is probably the result of the new yield system, what also should help the ai to get better started.
The river is very important for every improvement in the current version, all improvements get a bonus while build on a river.
The farm gets +1 Food and the Trading Post +1 Gold i.e., sure i could remove the the +1 Gold from Rivers, but i would prefer to walk other ways.
We could just increase the Gold value of each era, and adjust some events to make them % Gold loss insteas of ie 20 Gold.
The vanilla game just gives the option to embark, there is no setting to allow 1 or more tiles its hardcoded.
So we would need to create a workarround for this.
Hmm i also should explain why buildings have maintaince, if a buildings doesnt have a maintaince cost it cant be selled, and also the building maintence growth each era, so that the buildings will cost much more in the late game.
Oh
PS.
We have still many places that need altered, iam just really busy this days, i think i will get more time on this weekend to get a feeling where a helping hand is needed
One thing that needs some differend mechanic from my point of view are the religious symbol buildings in the anicent timeline. They are very cheep, have no maintance and give bonuses like a national or even world wonder. If you would get only one of them if your starting a religion than it might work but right now its simply overpowerd if they are actualy stacking their bonuses.
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
They can only be build if the city has adopted the related Religion.
Also there is no stack since you cant have that many Religions in one city.
blindmouse
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2009
- Messages
- 46
here's a thought, the selection of permanent alliances in the game setup. I have played Civ for a very long time and have never seen this functionality operate, it would be nice if you could form an alliance, trading tech, and resource, maybe units????, for a set number of turns 30 is good since all other deals are set this way. and of course the ability for betrayal of said ally or by said ally could lead to interesting circumstances as well.
Pioneer Boyscou
Chieftain
So you cannot gift units to another civ (and still stay out of war)?
About gifting units, there is an error. It should be so, that if you gift a unit (to whomever), it has to physically travel there. Now I had ships in an inland, closed sea and was still able to gift them to city-state other side of the world.
I have another suggestion too.
I vaguely remember, that in Civ IV you were able to produce movies and/or top records that the other civs (and maybe city-states) coveted. How about same here? You would need cotton, silk or sheep to produce clothes, or certain wonders (like Hollywood) to produce movies or iron to produce cars etc, which you could then trade with the other civs. It is kind of odd, that you are sending people to outer space and still trade horses and salt with other civs.
About gifting units, there is an error. It should be so, that if you gift a unit (to whomever), it has to physically travel there. Now I had ships in an inland, closed sea and was still able to gift them to city-state other side of the world.
I have another suggestion too.
I vaguely remember, that in Civ IV you were able to produce movies and/or top records that the other civs (and maybe city-states) coveted. How about same here? You would need cotton, silk or sheep to produce clothes, or certain wonders (like Hollywood) to produce movies or iron to produce cars etc, which you could then trade with the other civs. It is kind of odd, that you are sending people to outer space and still trade horses and salt with other civs.
There already is something like that with papyrus and paper etc., but it might make sense to add more resources like that. The problem is that it doesn't do anything about trading away the raw resources in the first place anyway.
I might look at implementing something closer to the guild system in BTS which would help, but it might be a while if ever.
This should be fixed in the development version, although perhaps not in an ideal way. I've simply reenabled the commented out condition for requiring the corresponding religion to be the main one, but a better implementation would be to script in dummy buildings for each religion present. It might be somewhat more computationally intensive though.
BackseatTyrant
Queer Anarcho-Transhumanist
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2013
- Messages
- 598
Is there a way to have a slimmed down version of this modpack? So that, it'll be like vanilla BNW but with the futuristic elements included from CCTP.
That would be quite hard to do. I'll try and do my best to make the early game more enjoyable, but ultimately it isn't really possible to separate it from the later parts.
In some respects the mod is similar to Caveman to Cosmos for BTS, but less complex. It should be possible to make the game interesting for everyone, possibly by eventually adding advanced start scenarios. The only problem is the amount of work it would take.
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