Ideas to improve Barbarian

[Imuratep]

Right now barbarian is considered as one of the weaker traits, except in games with barbarian world or raging barbarians. I think we should think of some way to improve it for normal settings.
1. Possibility: Doubled free units. By this it would become a better warmongering trait, but I don't know if it would fit the trait flavorwise.
2. Possibility: Barbarians also appear in your territory throughout the hole game to leave it towards your opponent. The strength of these barbs depends on your strength. Would make the trait at least interesting through the game (though it's probably more an annoyance for your opponents than a real trait)
3. Possibility: Perhaps some way to negotiate with barbs about the targeted attack on enemy cities
I'm anxious to your criticism and your suggestions, because I feel many think similar and want to see the trait more powerful.

 

[xanaqui42]

Personally, if I wanted to increase the value of Barbarian in single-player games, I'd just reduce the combat advantage the AI gets against barbarian units (presently at 25%).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

How about allowing a spell that lets your units fight each other for xp?

 

[Mailbox]

Being able to direct and coordinate with the barbarians would be absolutely great as well as barbarians spawning in barbarian leaders' territory.

 

[sputnik323]

As well I think orthos should be capitulated instead of killed by the clan of embers. The clan should have him be one of thier heros. - its a luck thing, kind of like the ring of carcer and gaining bridgit.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't know about that. Orthus and Rantine certainly don't get along.

 

[sputnik323]

well... it seems easier to get along than die or be a slave. idk maybe it is too powerful, just thinking of some 'extras' for the clan.

 

[rief_s]

Maybe capitulated with percent chance to become barbarian again (crazed) and can't have loyalty promotion.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'd like a way for them to gift cities to the barbarian state.

 

[deadliver]

.34 allows you to recruit mooks from goblin forts. Perhaps you should be able to build these?

I'd love to see a way to gift units to barbs, give them targets to attack (perhaps for gold), and barb leaders having a limited HN ability (so they can help their barbarian brethren).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still like my idea of giving the barbarian state several powerful traits, which could be lost. I'm thinking it would be nice for the Orthus and Four Horsemen events to give out these traits in the middle of the game, and for these heroes' deaths to make them loose the traits they gave.

 

[deadliver]

yeah I edited that out of my post because I just went off on Orthus and how he is such a girly man.

edit: why hasn't the team made the barbarians an emerging faction like Hyborem? Have Orthus act as the leader so a barbarian player can talk to him etc. Is there a limit to the civs possible that they have already reached? I seem to remember reading that somewhere...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

A lot of Barbarian State stuff is hard coded in the SDK. There simply has to be a barbarian state in order for the game to function, and this state can't have things like diplomacy. You can make the barbarian state playable and play as them, but a second, "more barbaric" barbarian state will be placed too, at war with you.

 

[Fafnir13]

The biggest problem I see with the Barbarian trait is that, should you follow the barbarian way of conquest and plunder, you will eventually lose the trait as you become the largest in culture either by elimination or empire building.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I find the score based-war really annoying. I like changing it so that they will only declare war when you make peace treaty with a non-barb-trait enemy.

 

[deadliver]

oh yeah a perpetual war requirement would be sick! I like the idea that your little barbarian cousins behave as long as you are crushinating the puny peoples!

Would you start at war with all civs MC? Or would you only lose the barbarians as friends after you declare war then make peace?

 

[sputnik323]

I find the score based-war really annoying. I like changing it so that they will only declare war when you make peace treaty with a non-barb-trait enemy.

I completly agree with this!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Oh, I meant if you signed a peace treaty to end a war. I'm not sure if the code distinguishes between the conditions. I hadn't really thought about it.

The time I actually implemented it I think I made it only apply if you made a peace treaty while you had the highest score, or it might have been if your score was higher than the civ with whom you made peace. Barbarians would understand if you had to make peace in order to survive, but sparing "civilizations" that are weaker than you just isn't right.



I was also thinking that I'd probably add an AV-only repeatable ritual with high AC requirements that let you make peace with the barbs (meaning the Horsemen and Avatar attack your enemies instead of you), but with some dark consequences. This ritual would only work while at war, and just like a barb civ you'd loose the treaty for showing too much mercy. This doesn't really make the trait stronger, but if you do have war declared on you (or if you declare war on them) then you'd have a way to get the peace back. I might make it give the other civs that build it gain the Barb trait and its tech penalty too.

 

[Fafnir13]

Whoo! Constant war! Except with other Barb civs, yes? I think you would need to implement a 0 war weariness for barb civs too. War happiness would be even better.

 

[deadliver]

How about a barbarian trait specific ritual? One that lets you summon barbs to the area?