Ideas to improve Barbarian

[MiKa523]

That's a cool idea.
It should summon a stack of barbarians though, so that they are really a threat and not just free XP.
Moreover they should maybe summon in that city, because appearing next to an enemy city might be too strong.

 

[Imuratep]

I also like the idea of deadliver a lot. It could be repeatable like the Elegy of the Sheaim or the hallowing of the elohim, but should cost less or should summon a real trait for your enemies each time you use it (they could have the best weapons and the best melee-unit type you can build)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

totally agreed with MC, I don't like the score-related-lose-peace-with-barbs thingy. it doesn't make sense, especially from gameplay perspective. I'm trying to win, why would the game punish me for being a good player? it would be awesome if this got changed to something that would actually get barbarians to be quite mad at you, like becoming good (alignment wise), having high-cultured cities, etc.

 

[Sarisin]

The biggest problem I see with the Barbarian trait is that, should you follow the barbarian way of conquest and plunder, you will eventually lose the trait as you become the largest in culture either by elimination or empire building.

I agree, and for this reason, I avoid playing civs with the trait. It is very difficult IMO to manage that 50% cap on points when you are playing.

I know AI Clan civs always seem to use their For The Horde World Spell in the first few turns, but I was wondering if you were playing as Jonas or Sheelba if you waited until Acheron and Orthus were on the map (or even TumTum, Magdalard, Horsemen), would you also get these units when you popped For The Horde?

 

[EverNoob]

If we're going to modify the barbarian trait, we should only change how it works in the late game. In the early game, the barbarian trait is powerful enough as it is IMO.

While playing on immortal I've rarely lost my peace with the barbs until I was near victory, because the AI always outechs me. You keep your score down by only researching essential military techs, since most of your economy should be tied up in unit and city maintenance anyway. I also selectively raze cities, which helps keep score down.

I've won religious victories and tower victories with Charadon while staying at peace with the barbs the whole time. Barb civs should not only be restricted to domination victory.

Losing peace with barb because of high culture is an interesting idea though. Maybe if the sum of culture from all your cities pass a certain threshold, the barbs will declare war on you. I have no idea what exactly that threshold should be though

 

[xienwolf]

Oh, I meant if you signed a peace treaty to end a war. I'm not sure if the code distinguishes between the conditions. I hadn't really thought about it.

The time I actually implemented it I think I made it only apply if you made a peace treaty while you had the highest score, or it might have been if your score was higher than the civ with whom you made peace. Barbarians would understand if you had to make peace in order to survive, but sparing "civilizations" that are weaker than you just isn't right.



I was also thinking that I'd probably add an AV-only repeatable ritual with high AC requirements that let you make peace with the barbs (meaning the Horsemen and Avatar attack your enemies instead of you), but with some dark consequences. This ritual would only work while at war, and just like a barb civ you'd loose the treaty for showing too much mercy. This doesn't really make the trait stronger, but if you do have war declared on you (or if you declare war on them) then you'd have a way to get the peace back. I might make it give the other civs that build it gain the Barb trait and its tech penalty too.

You would have to make certain to re-write how Deals work so that every trade of any type does not activate a 10 turn peace treaty for a leader with Barbarian trait. Otherwise the trait would make it impossible to trade techs with anyone who has a lower score, or even demand a resource from them.

 

[reverend oats]

How about the Barbarian trait player has to tribute x gold every y turns to the barbs, with the amount of gold increasing based on the population or land or score or power of the player? That way the player would have an incentive to conquest while not being punished for being too successful.