[the list has been updated to: post #25]
What if the leaders had bonuses, much like Age of Empires 2, instead of traits? Each leader would be free to have the bonuses that accurately reflected the leader instead of having traits that generically reflected all the leaders with that trait.
If there were bonuses and no traits, what bonuses do you think would reflect or distinctly define the leaders habits and decision making? Below is a list of all the leaders and the current bonuses they have at this point. Feel free to add to it or offer some suggestions. If this proves to be popular, I will update this post (see below) with the latest bonuses that were suggested for each leader for people to look at and add to. Who knows? Maybe we might end up with a list worth modding.
To help things move smoothly, here are some pointers when coming up with bonuses (this may change from time to time to help keep the discussion on track):
*Aim for bonuses that reflect the leader’s habits and decision making, not bonuses that make the leader better or more powerful - otherwise we wont get anywhere.
Keep it simple. If possible, give a bonus and a reason. In a perfect world, I would like to be able to copy and paste it right into the list. If not, then at least make the bonus decisive and simple so that it is easy to read and add.
*This will be done in stages (see below). At the different stages, different aspects will be tended to like balance, inter leader balance, gameplay balance, etc. That way we can, for instance, initially just focus on coming up with bonuses that accurately reflect the leader without regards to how unbalanced it becomes. The balancing will be tended to later.
*Keep in mind that the expansion pack will have added features like unique buildings, great generals, the Vassal State option, etc when coming up with bonuses.
*This list of bonuses does not in any way affect the unique unit (UU) or unique building (UB) and they will still have their effect and will not be changed.
*If there is a clash between people with what bonuses a leader should have, then be prepared to back them up. I will add a reason to the list to justify why that bonus exists so that people can see the rationale behind it and question it if need be. All the bonuses should be justifyable as it is meant to reflect the leaders habits and decision making. Powerful gameplay bonuses will be tonned down later when all of the leaders are balanced together and compared from a gameplay point of view.
With all that in mind, feel free to tell me what leaders should have what bonuses and why and I’ll update the list accordingly so that other people can look at it and add to or alter it as well.
If this is hard to understand, let me know or offer some suggestions to make this an easier process.
Watiggi
Goal: To have a complete list of all the leaders with bonuses that accurately reflect their habits and decision making.
Current step->Step 1: Brainstorming for all relevent bonuses for all the leaders. Just state the bonuses you think would define and reflect the leader.
Next step->Step 2: Trimming down the bonuses for each leader until the essential bonuses that reflect the leader is left. Note that maybe dulling down 2 bonuses might be more appropriate than removing one of them. It may or may not be prudent to end up with a list of about 3 or 4 bonuses per leader. Then again, it might turn out to be interesting to have about 10 bonuses per leader. We’ll see.
Step 3: Balancing the bonuses against each other, comparing gameplay and strategic advantages, etc with other leaders bonuses to get an overall level of balance. This may require dulling down a powerful gameplay bonus for instance.
Step 4: Finished (maybe).
Again, feel free to offer feedback or suggestions.
Alexander
*something to do with the march promotion (or the march ability in general).[I dunno, just seems right when I think of Alex. I think it is based on how fast he conquered and that it was really non stop from what I understand]
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Asoka
<no bonuses yet>
Augustus
*happiness bonus for having no units in cities.[The only units in Italy were the Praetorians]
*-50% revolt time for newly conquered cities.[No reason given]
*-25% city maintanence.[maintained a large empire]
Bismark
*+25% chance to culture flip border cities.[United Germany]
*+25% military production.[Strong commitment to military buildup]
*no diplomatic penalty for declaring war.[Proficient at making the rivals look like the aggressors]
Brennus
<no bonuses yet>
Catherine
*+3 diplomatic modifier to all male leaders.[No points for guessing why!
]
Churchil
*+25% defense bonuses for units within own cultural borders.[Defending themselves against Germany in WWII]
*less unhappiness from drafting.[People wanted to defend their country]
*+1 conscript per city.[People wanted to defend their country]
Cyrus
<no bonuses yet>
Elizabeth
*free xp bonus for all ships built.[Her ships did fight off the Spanish amarda]
Frederick
<no bonuses yet>
Gandhi
*double the city revolt time for rivals who capture his cities.[A very much loved pacifist]
*increased war warriness for rivals who attack Gandhi.[The rivals people may not see sense in going to war with a peaceful person]
Genghis Khan
*free supply costs (not support costs) for military units outside the borders.[Nomadic army was used to living off of the land]
*x research and gold over y turns for each city razed. [When cities were razed, they would carry off all the valuables back to their capital in supply trains]
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
*+25% more gold from Vassal States.[Being nomadic, he didn't really need anything from cities and so receiving tribute was a symbol of submission. He also gave those who submitted a large degree of autonomy]
Hannibal
*combat bonus when up against a more powerful opponent.[He took on the Roman army and won on their grounds]
*improved combat odds (or combat bonus) when odds of winning are really low.[Skilled at winning in difficult situations]
Hatshepsut
*+50% production when building wonders. [Pyramid builder. My history might be off here, but I am sure it will be corrected if its wrong]
Huayna Capac
<no bonuses yet>
Isabella
*state religion spreads faster.[why not
]
Julius Caesar
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Kublai Khan
*+2 trade routes.[Control of the silk road]
*+2 diplomatic modifier to leaders with an open border.[Open to trade and Marco Polo]
Louis XIV
<no bonuses yet>
Mansa Musa
<no bonuses yet>
Mao Zedong
*State Property civic right from the start of the game.[Communism was his thing]
*happiness bonus for having no units in cities.[Tiemen Square.]
Mehmed II
<no bonuses yet>
Montezuma
*permanent pop rushing ability.[Monte known for his attitude towards slavery.]
Napoleon
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Peter
<no bonuses yet>
Qin Shi Huang
<no bonuses yet>
Ragnar
*+25% gold from pillaging. [Were good at raiding and pillaging]
*amphibious promotion for all mele units.[Attacked from the sea]
Ramses II
<no bonuses yet>
Roosevelt
<no bonuses yet>
Saladin
*less war warriness when at war with a leader of a different religion.[The crusades]
Shaka
<no bonuses yet>
Stalin
*+25% military production. [He went nuts with manufacturing military equipment]
*+25% production bonus when building forges and factories.[5 year plan]
*+25% gold from Vassals.[Building of the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact]
Tokugawa
*-25% experience needed for promotions.[skilled warriors]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Victoria
*+25% Settler Production.[British imperial expansion.]
*distance maintanence costs capped at x.[Be able to settle far flung empires across the sea]
Wang kon
<no bonuses yet>
Washington
*double healing rates for gun powder units.[War at Valley Forge; army became stronger]
What if the leaders had bonuses, much like Age of Empires 2, instead of traits? Each leader would be free to have the bonuses that accurately reflected the leader instead of having traits that generically reflected all the leaders with that trait.
If there were bonuses and no traits, what bonuses do you think would reflect or distinctly define the leaders habits and decision making? Below is a list of all the leaders and the current bonuses they have at this point. Feel free to add to it or offer some suggestions. If this proves to be popular, I will update this post (see below) with the latest bonuses that were suggested for each leader for people to look at and add to. Who knows? Maybe we might end up with a list worth modding.
To help things move smoothly, here are some pointers when coming up with bonuses (this may change from time to time to help keep the discussion on track):
*Aim for bonuses that reflect the leader’s habits and decision making, not bonuses that make the leader better or more powerful - otherwise we wont get anywhere.
Keep it simple. If possible, give a bonus and a reason. In a perfect world, I would like to be able to copy and paste it right into the list. If not, then at least make the bonus decisive and simple so that it is easy to read and add.
*This will be done in stages (see below). At the different stages, different aspects will be tended to like balance, inter leader balance, gameplay balance, etc. That way we can, for instance, initially just focus on coming up with bonuses that accurately reflect the leader without regards to how unbalanced it becomes. The balancing will be tended to later.
*Keep in mind that the expansion pack will have added features like unique buildings, great generals, the Vassal State option, etc when coming up with bonuses.
*This list of bonuses does not in any way affect the unique unit (UU) or unique building (UB) and they will still have their effect and will not be changed.
*If there is a clash between people with what bonuses a leader should have, then be prepared to back them up. I will add a reason to the list to justify why that bonus exists so that people can see the rationale behind it and question it if need be. All the bonuses should be justifyable as it is meant to reflect the leaders habits and decision making. Powerful gameplay bonuses will be tonned down later when all of the leaders are balanced together and compared from a gameplay point of view.
With all that in mind, feel free to tell me what leaders should have what bonuses and why and I’ll update the list accordingly so that other people can look at it and add to or alter it as well.
If this is hard to understand, let me know or offer some suggestions to make this an easier process.
Watiggi
**********************************************
[size=+1]Goal and Plan[/size]
[size=+1]Goal and Plan[/size]
Goal: To have a complete list of all the leaders with bonuses that accurately reflect their habits and decision making.
Current step->Step 1: Brainstorming for all relevent bonuses for all the leaders. Just state the bonuses you think would define and reflect the leader.
Next step->Step 2: Trimming down the bonuses for each leader until the essential bonuses that reflect the leader is left. Note that maybe dulling down 2 bonuses might be more appropriate than removing one of them. It may or may not be prudent to end up with a list of about 3 or 4 bonuses per leader. Then again, it might turn out to be interesting to have about 10 bonuses per leader. We’ll see.
Step 3: Balancing the bonuses against each other, comparing gameplay and strategic advantages, etc with other leaders bonuses to get an overall level of balance. This may require dulling down a powerful gameplay bonus for instance.
Step 4: Finished (maybe).
Again, feel free to offer feedback or suggestions.
[size=+1]Current Leader Bonuses List[/size]
see top of post for date of last update
The leaders are in alphabetical order:
see top of post for date of last update
The leaders are in alphabetical order:
Alexander
*something to do with the march promotion (or the march ability in general).[I dunno, just seems right when I think of Alex. I think it is based on how fast he conquered and that it was really non stop from what I understand]
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Asoka
<no bonuses yet>
Augustus
*happiness bonus for having no units in cities.[The only units in Italy were the Praetorians]
*-50% revolt time for newly conquered cities.[No reason given]
*-25% city maintanence.[maintained a large empire]
Bismark
*+25% chance to culture flip border cities.[United Germany]
*+25% military production.[Strong commitment to military buildup]
*no diplomatic penalty for declaring war.[Proficient at making the rivals look like the aggressors]
Brennus
<no bonuses yet>
Catherine
*+3 diplomatic modifier to all male leaders.[No points for guessing why!
]Churchil
*+25% defense bonuses for units within own cultural borders.[Defending themselves against Germany in WWII]
*less unhappiness from drafting.[People wanted to defend their country]
*+1 conscript per city.[People wanted to defend their country]
Cyrus
<no bonuses yet>
Elizabeth
*free xp bonus for all ships built.[Her ships did fight off the Spanish amarda]
Frederick
<no bonuses yet>
Gandhi
*double the city revolt time for rivals who capture his cities.[A very much loved pacifist]
*increased war warriness for rivals who attack Gandhi.[The rivals people may not see sense in going to war with a peaceful person]
Genghis Khan
*free supply costs (not support costs) for military units outside the borders.[Nomadic army was used to living off of the land]
*x research and gold over y turns for each city razed. [When cities were razed, they would carry off all the valuables back to their capital in supply trains]
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
*+25% more gold from Vassal States.[Being nomadic, he didn't really need anything from cities and so receiving tribute was a symbol of submission. He also gave those who submitted a large degree of autonomy]
Hannibal
*combat bonus when up against a more powerful opponent.[He took on the Roman army and won on their grounds]
*improved combat odds (or combat bonus) when odds of winning are really low.[Skilled at winning in difficult situations]
Hatshepsut
*+50% production when building wonders. [Pyramid builder. My history might be off here, but I am sure it will be corrected if its wrong]
Huayna Capac
<no bonuses yet>
Isabella
*state religion spreads faster.[why not
]Julius Caesar
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Kublai Khan
*+2 trade routes.[Control of the silk road]
*+2 diplomatic modifier to leaders with an open border.[Open to trade and Marco Polo]
Louis XIV
<no bonuses yet>
Mansa Musa
<no bonuses yet>
Mao Zedong
*State Property civic right from the start of the game.[Communism was his thing]
*happiness bonus for having no units in cities.[Tiemen Square.]
Mehmed II
<no bonuses yet>
Montezuma
*permanent pop rushing ability.[Monte known for his attitude towards slavery.]
Napoleon
*+100% Great General Emergence.[Elite military system]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Peter
<no bonuses yet>
Qin Shi Huang
<no bonuses yet>
Ragnar
*+25% gold from pillaging. [Were good at raiding and pillaging]
*amphibious promotion for all mele units.[Attacked from the sea]
Ramses II
<no bonuses yet>
Roosevelt
<no bonuses yet>
Saladin
*less war warriness when at war with a leader of a different religion.[The crusades]
Shaka
<no bonuses yet>
Stalin
*+25% military production. [He went nuts with manufacturing military equipment]
*+25% production bonus when building forges and factories.[5 year plan]
*+25% gold from Vassals.[Building of the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact]
Tokugawa
*-25% experience needed for promotions.[skilled warriors]
*barracks built at double the production.[Military focused]
Victoria
*+25% Settler Production.[British imperial expansion.]
*distance maintanence costs capped at x.[Be able to settle far flung empires across the sea]
Wang kon
<no bonuses yet>
Washington
*double healing rates for gun powder units.[War at Valley Forge; army became stronger]
i have a coupe more. for catherine extra diplomatic relations with male civ leaders i don't have to explain
diplomatic thing for civs with different civics from supporting the american revolution
. and for washington double healing rates valley forge at end very good army. bonus only to gunpowder units though
